Kit - trout fly tying materials only!

[Steve P. 0]

Hi all,

 

This is my 1st post, so forgive me is this has been asked recently. I would like to

buy a kit of fly tying materials that would allow me to tie 10-20 standard trout

patterns. It would be best if it corresponded to a book like Skip Morris'

Fly Tying Clear and Simple. Even though this is a simple book, the book

description says that 73 materials !!! are used in the described patterns!

So, if I went out to buy the materials individually to reproduce the flies

in the book exactly, I'd be at it quite a while - not what I want to do

at this stage!

 

(There are also 27 tools used or described in the Morris book but I have the most important ones of those

already.)

 

Can anyone recommend such a kit?

 

Thanks alot!

 

Steve P.

[harleyhunter 0]

First welcome to the world of fly tying, and you made the right choice in fly tying forums. Everyone will be more than happy to help you here.

 

Back in August I posted almost the same post. The member all told me what I'm going to pass on to you. No tying kit is of good quality! Believe me I've tried them even though warned not to. Learn from my mistakes, buy individual materials from companies like J. Stockard and the like. They have great prices and excellent quality. Kits like Cabelas sell is basically leftover scraps and the poor quality will show in you flies.

First buy the best vise you can afford, they are not all the same. I personally had a Master vise and did away with it in a week. Now I tie on a Dan-Vise, its a true rotary for only $70- $80. I've never had a problem with it but have heard the jaws can become worn if worked to tight. They are very easy to replace. As for tools go for the basics: A whip finisher, a ceramic bobbin, a bokin, hair stacker, & a good pair of scissors. Everything else is really not needed for there are many methods you can do by hand. Head cement is a must! As for thread I use 6/0 and 8/0 dansville in assorted colors and for really small flies size 16 down I use dansvilles spiderweb thread.

 

Now sit down make a list of materials and look online for the company that fits you best. I prefer Stockard myself. They have great friendly service and really fast shipping. If there is anything you think I left out please feel free to PM me and I'll help to the best of my knowledge.

 

Best wishes,

Sam

[Steve P. 0]

Sam,

 

Thanks for the info!

 

I should have explained that I have been fly tying for about 3 years - but inshore

and surf patterns, not much in the way of trout. I've got the basic (and some not so basic)

tools. The downside of buying materials individually, that I'd like to avoid for now, is that

you end up with enough materials to tie dozens of flies and, for 73 materials, you're talking

100s of bucks! I'd just like to sit down with a kit of OK materials and do some learning of

basic patterns and techniques - later, when I've figured out which patterns I like, I certainly

plan on filling the part of my garage

not already taken by saltwater materials with trout stuff!

 

Thanks alot!

Steve P.

[Joe Hard 0]

I too will sugest staying clear of kits, and for most trout materials the items are fairly inexpensive, and will tie flies for a long time, if you are just planning to fill a box with a few patterns. Do you know what patterns you are going to tie? By the sounds of things you probally have all the tools/vice you will need. J.stockard has hackle on sale and other things and extermly fast service. Tell us the patterns you plan on and Im sure we could help you with what to buy and save you alot of money and headaches.

[harleyhunter 0]

Also to take the guess work out of your best bet flies look up the hatch charts for the waters your going to fish on the internet. Then take that info and look for the patterns that represent those insects. Then you should have the flies you need out of the 73 or so in the book then you can buy based on those patterns. Believe me stay clear of kits. Its for your own good! If you need help finding a certain hatch chart PM me and I'll help you look them up. Good Luck!

 

Sam

[Steve P. 0]

Hi all,

 

You've talked me into not buying a materials kit to reproduce the

fly patterns in Morris' fly tying book.

 

So here are the materials lists for the 15 flies that appear in Skip Morris'

book Fly Tying Clear and Simple. I have the hooks, and the threads are

easy. Also I have a nice brown dry fly neck and a half and half grizzly

and dun neck. And I've got plenty of tools...

 

I'd really appreciate your input on how to most efficiently order

the remaining dubbing, fur, hair and various feathers in various colors that appear in the

materials lists below without breaking the bank. I only intend to tie

4-6 of each pattern for this go-round, and I'd like to stay close to the

recipes in Morris' book - I can improvise later when I'm no longer

a beginner...

 

It's funny that there is such a large variety of materials in a beginner's book -

a beginner does not usually have any materials and has to go out and

purchase these one by one... Or substitute other materials - but a beginner

does not know what can substitute for what...

 

Thanks alot!

 

Steve P.

 

==================

 

Fifteen Patterns in Morris' fly tying book:

 

 

1. Rick's Caddis

 

thread: brown, 8/0 or 6/0

weight: no. 1 lead for size 16 or smaller

abdomen: bright green natural or synthetic fur

thorax: brown natural or synthetic fur

 

2. White and Grizzly Wooly Bugger

 

thread: white 6/0 or 8/0 for size 10 and down

tail: white marabou

hackle: grizzly

body: white chenille, med. size for sizes 8 and down

 

3. Gold Ribbed Hare's Ear

 

thread: black 6/0 or 8/0

weight: no. 1 lead for size 16 or smaller

tail: guard hairs from hare's mask

rib: fine oval gold tinsel

abdomen: hare's mask

wing case: brown mottled turkey-quill section

thorax: hare's mask

 

4. Morristone

 

thread: dark 8/0, 6/0 or 3/0

tail: brown, mottled hen-saddle tip with center removed

abdomen and thorax: dark gray Antron yarn

rib: brown V-rib

wing case: pheasant tail fibers

legs: brown mottled hen saddle feather (same as for tail)

head: dark brown dubbing

 

5. Pheasant Tail

 

thread: brown 8/0 or 6/0

tail: pheasant tail fibers

abdomen: pheasant tail fibers

rib: small copper wire

thorax: peacock herl

wing case and legs: pheasant tail fibers

 

6. Skip Nymph Dark

 

thread: black or brown 8/0 or 6/0

ribbing: small copper wire

abdomen and thorax: fur from a dyed brown hare's mask

tails and wing case: pheasant tail fibers

weight: copper or lead wire

 

7. Mickey Finn

 

thread: black 6/0 or 8/0

rib: oval silver tinsel

body: flat silver tinsel

wing: yellow and red bucktail

 

8. Black Ghost

 

thread: black 8/0 or 6/0

tail: yellow hackle fibers

rib: medium-fine flat silver tinsel

body: black floss

throat: yellow hackle fibers

wing: four white hackles

cheek: optional jungle cock eyes or substitute

 

9. Partridge and Yellow Soft Hackle

 

thread: yellow or pale 8/0 or 6/0

abdomen: yellow single-strand floss

thorax: hare's mask fur (thorax optional)

hackle: brown hen saddle hackle or partridge flank

 

10. Adams

 

thread: black 8/0 or 6/0

wings: grizzly hen-saddle tips

tail: grizzly and brown hackle fibers

body: dubbed muskrat fur

hackle: brown and grizzly

 

11. Gray Wulff

 

thread: black 8/0 or 6/0

wings and tail: brown bucktail (or calf tail)

body: gray dubbing (or yarn)

hackle: blue dun

12. Elk Hair Caddis

 

thread: tan 3/0

rib: fine gold wire

body: hare's mask dubbing

hackle: brown

wing: bleached elk hair

 

13. Comparadun (March Brown)

 

thread: tan 8/0 or 6/0

wing: brown natural coastal deer hair

tail: brown hackle fibers

abdomen and thorax: tan dubbing

 

14. Light Cahill Parachute

 

thread: tan 8/0 or 6/0

wing: white calf tail

tail: ginger hackle fibers

hackle: ginger

body: badger underfur

 

15. Griffith's Gnat

 

thread: olive, gray or black 8/0

hackle: grizzly dry fly hackle

body: peacock herl

 

----end---------

 

[sage8wt 0]

My response to all of this is......check out your local crafting type of store. See what you are able to purchase in a craft store, or get an idea of what some of the neccessary materials are like, and then see if you can find suitable replacements. Often times you can find materials that are very similar or the same for a reduced price. Also, you may find these materials in a far less quantity. Just my .02

[harleyhunter 0]

PM sent Steve P.

 

Sam

[skunkaroo 0]

Here's a couple of universal "for what it's worth" suggestions. Some will probably argue the points and suggest alternatives, but it's a start:

 

I. Dubbing: Assuming you don't want to make your own dubbing by pulling apart knitting wool and old sweaters, buy yourself a dubbing "cube" or tray (basically a simple plastic box with multiple compartments filled with different colours of materials). These aren't cheap, but they are cheaper than buying individual packages. I would recommend a good synthetic, or synthetic/natural blend that dubs easily, with a range of colours favouring browns, olives, and greys. At least one should be white/cream, one black and perhaps one muted red. This will substitute for most chenille and wool on bodies, and even some flosses. You will probably need to buy one or two other dubbing packs where a pattern calls for a spikey hair like hare's ear or squirrel (these last two can be used pretty interchangably).

 

II. Feathers: In addition to the feathers you already have, pick up at least two ringneck pheasant tail centres (one regular and one dyed olive it you can find it). These can sub for turkey in most cases (except wings), and are essential tail and body materials in many patterns. Marabou is a fairly useful feather and based on what is indicated below you'll probably just need white, but olive, black and burgundy are also useful colours to have. Try and buy marabou with shorter tips and more fluff. You will need a pack of peacock herl and a small pack of red hen or c*ck saddle for thraots

 

III. Ribbing: If you've been tying saltwater stuff you probably already have these, but pick yourself up small silver and gold oval tinsel, medium width silver/gold mylar tinsel, and fine gold, copper and silver wire.

 

IV. Weight: I use .02" lead wire almost exclusively. By flattening the wire using flat faced pliers, you can get almost any required thickness. Metal beads are expensive. Buy only what you need. There are a few guides to matching bead size to hook size around, but the best technique is to have the hook in hand and try out various sizes to figure out what you'll need. Go to a craft shop for glass seed beads and buy as necessary.

 

V. Hair: I've got boxes and boxes of polar bear, black bear, skunk, yak, fox, elk, deer, caribou, llama, rabbit, wolf, etc. Don't do it! A multi-colour pack of bucktail (red, yellow, white, natural), and a 3x3" square of natural, fine, deer hair will cover you for most situations.

 

A few comments on your list:

 

2. White and Grizzly Wooly Bugger

 

thread: white 6/0 or 8/0 for size 10 and down

tail: white marabou

hackle: grizzly

body: white chenille, med. size for sizes 8 and down

 

You can substitute rabbit or mink fur for the tail depending on the length required, and white dubbing for chenille.

 

3. Gold Ribbed Hare's Ear

 

thread: black 6/0 or 8/0

weight: no. 1 lead for size 16 or smaller

tail: guard hairs from hare's mask

rib: fine oval gold tinsel

abdomen: hare's mask

wing case: brown mottled turkey-quill section

thorax: hare's mask

 

A tuft of deer hair or lighter pheasant tail fibres can be subbed for the guard hair tail, and a pheasant tail section for the turkey wing case.

 

4. Morristone

 

thread: dark 8/0, 6/0 or 3/0

tail: brown, mottled hen-saddle tip with center removed

abdomen and thorax: dark gray Antron yarn

rib: brown V-rib

wing case: pheasant tail fibers

legs: brown mottled hen saddle feather (same as for tail)

head: dark brown dubbing

 

Substitute copper wire, tying thread, or floss for the rib. You can use the softer fibres from the base of a brown rooster neck feather for the tails and leags, but hen or partridge works best.

 

8. Black Ghost

 

thread: black 8/0 or 6/0

tail: yellow hackle fibers

rib: medium-fine flat silver tinsel

body: black floss

throat: yellow hackle fibers

wing: four white hackles

cheek: optional jungle cock eyes or substitute

 

Don't tie this fly--it doesn't belong in a basic fly book. However, if you do substitute tightly packed black dubbing for the floss. You'll need to buy yellow, and white saddle feathers (available in cheap packs).

 

9. Partridge and Yellow Soft Hackle

 

thread: yellow or pale 8/0 or 6/0

abdomen: yellow single-strand floss

thorax: hare's mask fur (thorax optional)

hackle: brown hen saddle hackle or partridge flank

 

One of the simplest and most effective of flies, however you'll need to buy the ingredients listed--no subs here.

 

10. Adams

 

thread: black 8/0 or 6/0

wings: grizzly hen-saddle tips

tail: grizzly and brown hackle fibers

body: dubbed muskrat fur

hackle: brown and grizzly

 

Muskrat? We don't need no steenkin muskrat! Use grey dubbing (as in the Wullf below).

 

12. Elk Hair Caddis

 

thread: tan 3/0

rib: fine gold wire

body: hare's mask dubbing

hackle: brown

wing: bleached elk hair

 

Use natural deer instead of elk (works better anyway).

 

13. Comparadun (March Brown)

 

thread: tan 8/0 or 6/0

wing: brown natural coastal deer hair

tail: brown hackle fibers

abdomen and thorax: tan dubbing

 

Forget finding coastal deer

 

14. Light Cahill Parachute

 

thread: tan 8/0 or 6/0

wing: white calf tail

tail: ginger hackle fibers

hackle: ginger

body: badger underfur

 

A very nice pattern for PMD hatches. While you can use almost anything for a wing post including foam, wool, deer hair, etc. that ginger colouration is hard to substitute. That said, if you combine grizzly and brown or dun and brown hackle fibres you'll get something close that will also cover a lot of other mayfly hatches.

[Steve P. 0]

Skunkaroo,

 

Thanks for the lengthy, very informative reply!

 

A quick followup question if you don't mind.

I have a 12 pack of Hareline Dubbin (DUB5 - think it's 100% rabbit hair) and

Antron in nice colors. Will both of these work equally well for drys and nymphs,

and will these be good for these patterns? Do you suggest

also purchasing hare's ear dubbing in a variety of colors.

 

Also, do "hen saddle" "feathers" and "hackles" come as necks or packs or ?

 

Thanks again,

Steve P.

 

 

[harleyhunter 0]

If your going to tie nymphs or other buggy looking flies then yes get the hare ear dubbing it has plenty of guard hairs to give it the effect you want. As for the other question feathers come as bag packs, full or half necks, full skins, & some hackle comes attached to cardboard cards if only ordering like ten pieces or so. But to get more for the buck buy whole necks and and skins. Unless you don't need that much. As an example I use Hungarian Partridge but not enough for a whole skin so I get it by the bag when needed, hackle I get full necks. Thats just what fits me best. As you go along you will see faster than you think whats best for you. Good luck.

 

Sam

[Joe Hard 0]

How are you making out with this I see you got alot of info. Have a look at J.Stockard They are about the fastest place I have ever dealt with, and as far as prices go they is not much difference on other mail order places. I might be able to hook you up with a few things you need or cant get.

[Hot Tuna 0]

You have the expensive part...the necks. You need one more lighter color neck...might I suggest a cream Hebert Miner pro grade...around 20.00. A dubbing dispenser assortment (10.00). A package of strung peacock herl. A mottled brown hen saddle will cover your basic soft hackle needs(around 5.00). Chenille is really inexpensive...get black, white, yellow and olive; they all make great buggers. You can use the larger hackles on the back part of your necks for the buggers for now. Some pheasant tail... not too expensive.

Definitely get some coastal deer hair for the comparadun pattern as well as the elk hair caddis as a substitute. Get some poly yarn in white and gray; really inexpensive. You can use it for the posts on parachutes as well as spinner wings...I'm hoping you'll be jumping past those patterns before you know it.

That is a great basic selection in Skip's book. Around my parts you would catch plenty of trout if you have good presentation skills. And lastly, don't forget to buy some Pantone permanent pens in yellow, brown, orange, green and black....you can always modify lighter color materials with these.

I'm thinking that a fifty dollar gift certificate would get you pretty far towards getting most of these materials...ask Santa!

Good luck with your tying, as you will soon find out,you never have enough materials.

All the best,

Hot Tuna

[Jayhawk Jeff 0]

I love a good generalization. In this case the one that says all kits suck because everybody on the bulletin boards says so. I find it irresponsable to start steering new tyers to $100 vises and then tools and materials and hooks. Before you know it they're in for $300 and haven't tied a dang thing yet. If the guy does goes in that far and decides that tying is not his bag, guess where that stuff goes. that's right, Ebay for $30. While bad kits may have been the case in the past, that day has passed. Cabelas teamed with Wapsi to create a very nice entry level that goes for about $60 and has the materials and instruction book to tie a dozen each of 10 trout flies. No chasing around for missing stuff. It pairs the book with the materials. I have several buddies new to tying and love these Kits. Many shops also do this. Keep up with the market, you experts.

[harleyhunter 0]

Jayhawk Jeff,

 

I was letting him know my experience and the experiences of tyers I know. I bought a kit from Cabelas and I though it was my tying that was bad but then bought real quality materials and not the scraps they put in kits. My tying inproved greatly instantly. And yes those materials even from Waspi are there less then perfect scraps. So thanks for your info and $0.02, "expert".

 

Sam