Snipe and Starling Question

[bhaase 0]

Hi again,

 

Can someone please give me some advice on where to intially take feathers from snipe and starling wings? Is it just the obvious places where the barbs look to be the appropriate size?

 

Thanks,

Blake

[shezli 0]

What kinds of patterns are you going after with these feathers?

[rockworm 0]

Blake

 

For the traditional North Country Spiders (ie Snipe and Purple, Light Spanish Needle, Black Stewart's Spider...) you would be using the marginal coverts, the lesser coverts and the under coverts. The marginal coverts are found along the leading edge of the wing and are the smallest feathers on the bird. The lesser coverts are found just behind the marginal coverts on the top side of the wing; the under coverts on the underside of the wing just behind the marginal coverts.

 

Note that some snipe patterns call for light marginal coverts, others for dark.

[Soft-hackle 0]

Wings

 

Body feathers

 

These two links are to Mike Connors site. One covers wing feathers. The other covers body feathers.

 

Starling

 

Snipe

 

The above two links cover the birds specifically.

 

Happy reading,

Mark

[bhaase 0]

Thanks, Rockworm. I actually tied some flies last night using the snipe (maybe starling tonight). Based on what you've told me, I think I was probably using the marginal coverts found near the top of the wing. Overall, I think it makes a great looking fly. I tied about a dozen "snipe and purples" in sizes 12 and 14. Some I added a hares ear thorax to, others I didn't. I will say that the hackle was considerably more fragile that the partridge hackle I was used to using. I probably broke off (at tie in point) a third of the time.

 

Shezli, I plan on using the snipe on additional snipe and purples, snipe and yellows, etc. The starling will be used on starling and herl, Leisenring's Iron Blue Dun, and some Black Spiders. If you all have any other patterns you'd like to suggest, I'd love to hear them.

 

Thanks,

Blake

[bhaase 0]

Thanks, Mark. Those look like great readings! Based on a quick look, it may be helpful to purchase a full starling versus just the wings. Is that correct?

 

Another question for you regarding the Iron Blue Dun...if I don't have mole's fur for the body, is there another kind of dubbing I can substitute?

 

As always, thanks.

 

Blake

[rockworm 0]

Although nothing matches the consistency of mole, a dark blue-gray poly dubbing is sometimes recommended as a substitute. Since the colour of mole ranges from black to mid-gray I would suggest dark muskrat (underfur only) maybe mixed with a little black dubbing. You might also try some silk dubbing, which is very fine and suitable for wet flies..

[Soft-hackle 0]

Blake,

rockworm has given a very good answer to your question. I would not use poly dubbing, however unless it was for a dry fly. The combination of dark muskrat with some black bubbing would yield a color that's pretty close to mole. Mole is somewhat short in the fibers, fine and soft. I've found rabbit fur in dark gray is also a great substitute. If you live in the US and know someone that hunts Cottontail rabbit, the tails, which are white, brown and gray can be dyed the correct color to substitute for mole.

 

Better yet, purchase a good moleskin:

 

Mole

 

Remember, the mole is spun on red thread. By the way, the Snipe and Purple is a pre-cursor to the Iron Blue Dun, and was tied to represent the same natural fly.

 

Iron Blue Dun

 

Mark

[rockworm 0]

bhaase

 

The Stone Bloa makes good use of the snipe wing:

 

hook: wet #14-16

thread: yellow (silk)

hackle: light snipe marginal covert (sparse)

body: tying thread (thin)

wings: narrow slips from snipe primaries

 

A very good imitation of the pale evening dun and other light-bodied mayflies.

[bhaase 0]

Thanks Rockworm and Mark.

 

Can you guys direct me to an image of the Stone Bloa? I tried searching on Google and this database, but had no luck. Perhaps it goes by a different name at times?

 

THanks again,

Blake

[Soft-hackle 0]

Blake,

I couldn't find any recent photos, either. A lot of the older patterns, like the Stone Bloa are not tied as much anymore. Only those interested in historical dressings might tie these flies. Many of the older patterns have been simplified/grouped and are used and tied with more modern materials. A good match might be a Snipe and Yellow with the Snipe wings added. The term "Bloa" is a term referring to the color of the feather. It is interpreted as a darkish gray, the color of storm clouds. I consider it a medium "Blue-Dun" in color.

 

Mark

 

 

[rockworm 0]

Blake

 

I don't know where you would find a photograph of the Stone Bloa. My reference is North Country Flies by Roger Fogg, but there are no plates. And at the present time I cannot tye one for you to see. But the fly is not a complicated one. It must be tyed sparsely: just a thread body, one or two turns of hackle, and two slender wing slips tyed upright (leaning slightly back) and divided slightly.

 

rockworm

 

(There is a sketch of this fly on plate 9 of Neme's book The Soft-Hackled Fly Addict, but I doubt it would help you much.)

[bhaase 0]

As always, thanks for the advice. That was an interesting bit on where "bloa" comes from. I just received my copy of Nemes' 'Soft-Hackled Fly Imitations' and while the Stone Bloa doesn't seem to be mentioned, I do see other references of 'bloa' such as the Waterhen-Bloa. The name makes quite a bit more sense now that I know the meaning.

 

Thanks,

B