snboggs 0 Report post Posted March 21, 2008 I was watching a video today of someone tying a Light Spruce Streamer. I decided to make several small variations and here's what I came up with. I call it the Peacock Red. The fly has a peacock herl or sword tail, a red floss body (the top one is ribbed with oval silver tinsel or silver wire), herl thorax and two married fiery brown hackles as a wing. If I wasn't in college and could afford it, I think a jungle cock nail on each side would look good as well. Although I think it's beautiful the way it is. My question is, how does one declare ownership of a pattern? Does the pattern have to be copyrighted or patented? Can I make such a small variation as in my case and call it my own original pattern How does this work? Anyway, even if you don't know what do you think of the flies? Thanks guys! snboggs Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
netabrookie 0 Report post Posted March 25, 2008 snboggs, I too pondered on this same question for a while and then realized that out of the thousands, if not millions, of tyers over the thousand plus years of fly tying, there proubly isn't very many combinations of materials that hasn't been tried before. Some of the newer materials is still a wide open window, but getting the credit for an original pattern is proubly quite difficult. A lot of the great flies of the past were created by necessity, became local favorites, then became legends. I would love to have my name attached to an awsome fly, not for any royalties, but to pass on my love of the sport to the next generation. And, by the way, they are real good looking streamers. Take Care, Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flytire 0 Report post Posted March 25, 2008 revised see my post below Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flytire 0 Report post Posted March 25, 2008 I call it the Peacock Red. The fly has a peacock herl or sword tail, a red floss body (the top one is ribbed with oval silver tinsel or silver wire), herl thorax and two married fiery brown hackles as a wing. after a little research, you basically tied the "Dark Spruce". You simply added a rib. it also appears you left out the hackle collar. adding one element and omitting another is not a new fly (imho). dark spruce streamer page 471 of "forgotten flies" you say your in college and cant afford jungle cock. a patent attorney is gonna cost you a whole lot more than jungle cock will ever cost you. ouch!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
snboggs 0 Report post Posted March 25, 2008 I'll pass on the law suit. I'll just take away the name a fish it myself. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flytyingscotsman 0 Report post Posted March 25, 2008 Let me start by saying that as far as I am aware, patents don't apply to fly patterns. But if they did .... In the game of patents, there is a term 'prior art'. 'Prior art' means information made available to the public prior to a particular date in connection with any patent application and/or claims of originality. If the 'Peacock Red' were to be the subject of a patent application, then the Patent Office would find the 'Light Spruce' while performing their prior art search, at which point it would be discovered that the 'Peacock Red' is pretty much a 'Light Spruce' with a rib and other small variations - Game over. If a piece of intellectual property isn't 'prior art', then it is classed as a 'trade secret' - most likely some of the best patterns through the ages started life as 'trade secrets' - their inventors kept them to themselves for a period of time - if you have patterns you don't want 'ripped off', then keep them secret !! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
snboggs 0 Report post Posted March 25, 2008 I'm not trying to patent my pattern or anything like that. I was just curious what the procedures were to get your name attached to a pattern. That's all. But thanks for all the insightful information! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flytyingscotsman 0 Report post Posted March 25, 2008 I'm not trying to patent my pattern or anything like that. I was just curious what the procedures were to get your name attached to a pattern. That's all. But thanks for all the insightful information! You can't patent a pattern, as I pointed out - I was proceeding on the supposition that you could in order to show that a minor tweak to a famous pattern won't get you very far anyways. To get 'famous' with a pattern, it has to be a proven fish catcher. Guides/fly shops that develop really good flies have the best opportunity to make this happen in my opinion. Word gets out to a number of people, they use the pattern and catch fish with it. The next step is publishing an article about the fly in a magazine or book, should they decide to pursue things further. No mean feat - most patterns that make the grade are far from 'hot off the press' - often they have been developed over the course of many seasons. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flytire 0 Report post Posted March 25, 2008 Let me start by saying that as far as I am aware, patents don't apply to fly patterns. heres one from jim teeny for what is essentially is the "teeny nymph" but it may be for the tying method http://www.freepatentsonline.com/3821862.html another http://www.freepatentsonline.com/4559736.html Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flytyingscotsman 0 Report post Posted March 26, 2008 Let me start by saying that as far as I am aware, patents don't apply to fly patterns. heres one from jim teeny for what is essentially is the "teeny nymph" but it may be for the tying method http://www.freepatentsonline.com/3821862.html another http://www.freepatentsonline.com/4559736.html These are 'tying method' patents as you were guessing and for my money not really worth the paper they are written on. Why ? because a patent is worthless if it cannot be enforced. Sure, if Umpqua or Orvis started selling flies tied using Teeny's methods then it MAY be worth his while trying to muscle in on the action, if he really has a claim (and enough cash to get the lawyers kick started). This is where it gets interesting - more often than not the investment in legal fees to chase a patent infringement far outweighs the potential payback - one time licensing sum or royalties going forward. What is interesting is that if you read the first patent description above it reads like the steps for tying a Pheasant Tail Nymph - tie in PT, wrap to form the body and if you want legs, bring the butts down and under instead of clipping them off - WAIT A MINUTE - Jim Teeny invented the method for tying a Pheasant Tail Nymph with legs ? - what, because nobody else bothered to apply for a patent ? I'm willing to BET there is a ton of 'prior art' on this one !! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
