First Copper Johns

[TheFlyBum 0]

When I first try a pattern that is new to me I do not typically change anything from the original, but in this case though I've made a couple with peacock herl and didn't have any difficulty with for some reason I just wanted to tie it with some Fly Tiers Dungeon Peacock dubbing.

 

Do you all think this will have any negative effect on how well it fishes?

 

Since starting tying several months ago I decided that I would tie flies to catch fish not to catch fisherman. Works of art that are pleasing to my eye is not my goal in fly tying, but catching fish. I've also normally a person that lives by the motto if it ain't broke don't fix it, but for some reason with the Copper John I want to make this change even though I've fished them for years, because they catch fish and all of them had peacock herl in the past.

 

I read one thread here where the person said they were using ice dubbing and not tying in legs, I thought about that myself, but finally decided to go the extra step of tying in legs also. What do you all think.

 

Just though of one more thing I've been tying these on TMC 5262 hooks, but only have them down to a sz. 14 and want to tie some in sz 16 & 18 would a 3761 be a good alternative or would a 2302 be better.

[NJ All Day 0]

That is the good thing about fly tying, there is nothing set in stone. You can do what ever you want. Using dubbing might make it more durable, and the fish might like it more.

[mybadhabit 0]

How about posting some pics for the rest of us to see. Sounds like a good mix you got going there.

[FrequentTyer 0]

Tom,

I would be amazed if the change made much of a difference. But the only way to know for sure is to ask the fish. I'll second the request for some pictures.

Since starting tying several months ago I decided that I would tie flies to catch fish not to catch fisherman. Works of art that are pleasing to my eye is not my goal in fly tying, but catching fish. I've also normally a person that lives by the motto if it ain't broke don't fix it, but for some reason with the Copper John I want to make this change even though I've fished them for years, because they catch fish and all of them had peacock herl in the past.

I always get a bit bothered by the whole catch fish not fisherman mantra. If the goal is only to catch fish, use worms! (I'm being facetious here). But seriously, while striving for "works of art" might be going too far, we do need to strive for consistency and correct form. I think that by the very fact that you asked the question you are revealing that you are more of an artisan that you want to admit The basic fundamentals are your best tools. The great thing about fly tying is that once you have mastered the fundamentals you can apply them in many different ways and fish your own creations with confidence.

[Johny Utah 0]

No peacock dubbing is anything like the real thing. If durability is what your worried about with your peacock hurl simply make a dubbing loop and twist the hurls in it. Makes natural peacock bomb proof.

[Dezod 0]

While I agree that no peacock dubbing is like actual herl. I also think the Dungeon Mr. Peacock Dubbing is my favorite product he sells. I use it a lot. I don't think the fish will mind that you changed it up a little. I have used it a number of times in my PT nymphs. I have a few different colors of PT and I will often use a similar dyed shade of Mr. Peacock.

 

As for your hook question I have seen Copper Johns on even 200R hooks. The best... and I mean BEST thing about tying your own flies is that you can do anything you want.

 

Keep tying... and it is prety cool to catch a fisherman with your tying once in a while too.

 

C

[bluegill576 0]

I would say it probably wouldn't make that much of a difference, but just go test it out.

[whatfly 0]

I always get a bit bothered by the whole catch fish not fisherman mantra. If the goal is only to catch fish, use worms! [sNIP]

Hear, hear!

 

Have experimented quite a bit with the Copper John, and I've never found that my variants (dubbed, no legs, multi-color, biot-wing, etc.) were ever as reliable as the original pattern. Perhaps it is a matter of confidence (key issue because you must have faith in whatever fly you use, so ultimately we do tie for the fisherman) but whatever the case, it produces as is and if it ain't broke...

[TheFlyBum 0]

Thank you everyone for all the replies.

 

I always get a bit bothered by the whole catch fish not fisherman mantra. If the goal is only to catch fish, use worms! (I'm being facetious here). But seriously, while striving for "works of art" might be going too far, we do need to strive for consistency and correct form. I think that by the very fact that you asked the question you are revealing that you are more of an artisan that you want to admit The basic fundamentals are your best tools. The great thing about fly tying is that once you have mastered the fundamentals you can apply them in many different ways and fish your own creations with confidence.

 

I'm with you...but in order to relax and have fun though I do work on consistency, form and proportions, I try not to focus on making works of art, but simply too improve with each fly I tie. I have a tendency toward perfectionism and this is my way of not getting caught in that trap. I'm making a conscious choice to be satisfied with each fly I tie as long as I know I did my best. Plus since I'm new this way I don't get so frustrated by taking 40 minutes to tie one fly.

 

Yes am somewhat an artist type, but if my flies never look as good as Charlie Craven's, Mike Mercer's, or Hogan Brown's I will still be happy if they consistently catch fish.