D Bulla

Hi Norman, I'm really new here and just getting back into tying after about 30 years. In the meantime though, I have worked in a lot of industrial manufacturing settings as a mechanic responsible for repair, calibration an adjustment of production line machines. Never dealt with handling feathers but material is somewhat irrelevant when it comes down to it. Anyway, just saying the above as a point of reference before I start my armchair quarterbacking... First things that popped into my mind when you said you were coming up short were the terms "net" vs "gross". When buying the materials in such small amounts as you are talking about, all portions I've seen come in plastic or cellophane envelopes. What I would check first (and you may already have done so, I just don't know) would be to see if the package is labeled "net wt" or just "weight". If the latter, it is entirely possible that they are weighing the feather bundles AFTER they are in the envelope and the envelope is part of the weight. In my experience with products packaged by weight, a sensitive scale conveyor is used and the packages pass over it at a fairly high rate of speed. If the weight is spot on or heavy, containers pass through and on down the line. If underweight, they get kicked off into a reclaim bin. Properly done, an empty container is used prior to the production run to set the tare wt on the scale but with a product as light as feathers and a container as light as a cellophane envelope, they may choose to weigh gross wt and mark it as such. Or, if the materials are subject a high percentage of weight variance over time due to something like moisture changes during long term storage, they may chose to use "approximate weight". I would not hold this against them as it's just their way of saying a a weight variable is out of their hands. This is a factor items such as feathers might experience. I'm just guessing based on my experience in other fields of production, but I would expect dyed feathers to pick up moisture weight during the dying process. I would also expect that the manufacturer would have a drying process to prepare the feathers for processing into packagable bundles. Lastly, I doubt that the dyed feathers would be completely dried to a moisture content near zero that caused them to become brittle or break during the sewing step so they may indeed continue to loose some weight after being packaged. I would also expect "fresh", undyed feathers to have a certain moisture content just from being on the bird that would slowly drop over time. Imagine if you bought CCA lumber by the pound instead of by the board foot and you get what I'm talking about. Moisture is a variable subject to change, simple as that. Of course, the thing I don't know is just how large and sophisticated an operation most of these feather places run nor how how much of a variable (% wise) moisture really is. For all I know the feathers could be packaged by a guy in his basement with a reloading scale and a box of plastic bags. In all reality, that type of operation should have the more accurate weights simply because an individual, handling and measuring individual packages, is less prone to error than a machine. Provided the seller is honest and I think most are. If he's not, he could very possibly be shorting packages on purpose. Bottom line, I suggest finding out if the feathers are packaged net or gross. If gross, remeasure including the envelope to make sure you are in fact being shorted. If you still have concerns, I'd contact the packager and do as you already said. Start out politely and question their weights giving examples from your records. Let them know that you have plans to increase production on your part and are potentially a steady and valued customer. See what they say. Maybe they will be very helpful, maybe they will hang up on you. Either way, you'll have a good idea if they have been scamming intentionally or not all this time. Lastly, don't rely on weighing a nickel to calibrate your scale. If you don't have an actual set of check weights you can't be sure of your scale. As a reloader, I can say that scales are very touchy to outside influences. Not sitting level, an open window on the other side of the room creating a draft, heck, a fly landing on the pan can all cause erroneous readings. Hopefully you can get an answer you can live with but it sounds like you are at least getting pretty good quality feathers. Hopefully it's a simple misunderstanding.

Just a quick list since I found the paper I wrote some of the items down on: 6 Orvis tapered leaders 3 spools cortland backing 1 Moodus fishermans tool. 1 Streamlife wing burner set (3 different sizes) 1 orvis black snip 2 orvis silver snips 1 orvis black snip with zinger 3 orvis pin on zingers 1 Griffin ceramic scissors 1 Miltex iris scissors, surgical, Germany 1 orvis "bent" scissors 3 orvis super smooth supreme bobbins (black holders) 3 orvis super smooth supreme bobbins (brass holders) 3 renzetti ht106 bobbins, ruby tip. 7 tiemco ceramic bobbinsm black tip (heavy duty?) 2 griffin rotating hackle pliers 1 renzetti ht202 standard hair stacker 1 renzetti std ht 204 double ended stacker 1 renzetti midge ht205 double ended stacker 6 various make bodkin needles 6 spools orvis lead wire ranging from .015 to .035 7 spools orvis thread, various colors 9 pkgs dyed marabou 12 pkgs dyed hackles 6 pkgs undyed hackles 3 grizzly capes 1 Metz half grizzly cape misc yarn spools orvis chenile and spectra spools 3 dyed bucktails 1 undyed bucktail a bunch of dyed deer hair belly strips Which leaves the things that I have no idea what they are and the spools of line which I didn't write down on the list. Hmmm, just looked over the list and it looks like some things are not on it. I know there were two whip finishing tools in two different sizes and a couple other things.

What's the best way to post pic's here? On the other forums I go to I usually use photobucket. I have not looked into posting pic's here. By the way, KHoss, I appreciate the input on prices. I doubt I'll sell much other than maybe some of the bobbins or hackle pliers and scissors that have multiple duplicates. As near as I can tell, nearly every item is new and unused. The fly lines are also new, unused. I got almost all my prices from the computer looking in various on line stores and I'm seeing these lines in the $50 to $60 range. Is there something I'm missing where they might only be worth ten to twenty? When I get a chance, I'll look at the lines and see exactly which ones are there. I recall one or two labeled "trout", I think there was "spring creek", not sure the others. Most are 5wt, wt fwd or rocket taper. I've got a 6 wt rod but not a 5. Think they'll work in my 6 wt?

Thanks JSzymczyk for the info. I went ahead and looked it up and came up with pretty much the same. I'm not sure which model this one is but it doesn't have the flat base, it's got a table clamp. How does that brand compare with others? My personal vice that I got as a kid is an old Thompson's model A and is the only thing I have to compare to. This new one looks light years ahead of mine. Also, would you all mind if I post some pic's of the stuff I got just for input on how good it is and what some of the items are. I've got some little parts that I believe are replacement stones for a hook sharpener but I don't have the holder part. Each one is about 1 1/2" to 1 3/4" long, is mounted in black plastic and there are two plastic "tits" that stick off the back which I assume snap into whatever type handle it goes on. There's a white "V" groove stone, a white "V" male stone (I can only guess it's for sharpening the back of the barb?) a reddish brown flat one and one that has a small white round rod shaped stone.

Hello everyone. Just found the site yesterday while trying to get information on some equipment I lucked across at an estate sale. I haven't tied a fly in 30 years and was never what anyone would call real good at it back when I did but I caught fish on them. I got into tying when I was about 13 or 14 years old and tied only up till I was about 17 and went into the military so pretty limited on my experience. One thing I did learn when I was a kid tying, there wasn't a lot of need to exactly match a pattern. I hardly ever had all the materials needed to make any given fly I wanted to tie but I could usually come up with something similar. At least if that something similar was from a critter I could kill in Pennsylvania. Used lots of squirrel, deer, pheasant and grouse parts. Heck, I even remember using the fur out of the curry comb that came from brushing our German Shepard dog. Pretty nice reddish tan dubbing as I recall. I just got a box of supplies from an estate sale like you wouldn't believe. I'm going to give my oldest son a vice for Christmas and hopefully we can both kinda learn/relearn it together. Anyway, that's about it for now. I'll be lurking around and seeing what I can pick up. I'm going to have some questions I'm sure on some of the things that were in the box of goodies I bought but I'll post them in the other topic I already started. Probably will have to post a couple pic's and hopefully someone here can help me figure out what some of the loose pieces and parts are. The thread is in the Fly Tying Bench section and it's called "The mother of all estate sale finds?!" Dave

Now now... that ones a gift. I haven't looked that up yet. What's it worth? Aw heck, I don't care what it's worth, I'm happy. Matter of fact, I don't care much what any of the stuff I bought is worth. Only reason I tallied it up was to prove a point to my wife. She bought a solid oak dining room table set at a yard sale for $175. It's worth about $4,000. I figure dollar for dollar, my box of fly tying stuff has her table beat. But I suppose I'll never be able to prove THAT point.

Hello everyone. Very first post here and hopefully the first of many. I suppose I'll throw in a little background intro then get to my point. I haven't tied a fly since I was about 17 years old and that was 30 years ago... Used to tie a lot of 'em as a kid simply because I couldn't afford to buy 'em and of course because I thought it was fun. I don't know that I was ever what you'd call good at but I caught plenty of fish on my flies. At least in the farm pond We had a trout stream that went under our driveway back home in PA so fishing was always about a 75 yard walk away. Had 7 ponds on the farm too with sunfish, bass and what we called "shiners" that look like a type of shad. I've got a lot of fond memories of fishing as a kid on that little creek. It was full of "native" browns as we called them. Yea, I know browns aren't native anywhere in the US but they were self sustaining and the creek was never stocked. I used to use an old Eagle Claw 9' fiberglass rod that was supposedly "custom made" locally from a factory blank and then a friend of the family gave me an old 3 piece bamboo rod and I used it too. Still have both of them and also a pretty nice Fenwick graphite 6 wt. Haven't used them in years but that's probably about to change... Yesterday I went to an estate sale at a 1.2 million $ house and got lucky. This house was WAAAY out of my price range but the wife and I love garage and estate sales and it's sort of our hobby on weekends. We don't buy to sell, just for ourselves. I think 99% of the stuff in our house came from garage sales. Anyway, there were some guns and stuff that I was really looking over hard but all the ones in my price range were marked sold already. Then I looked on a table and there was a bunch of fly fishing stuff for sale. A couple fly boxes from "Richard Wheatly" in England. Some with flies, most empty but priced in the $30 range for empties and the ones with flies were I think $80. Not anything I'd jump on. Lots of spools of fly line, backing and leader materials. Lines ranged from 4wt to 13 wt tarpon lines. Mostly Orvis brand. Marked $18 a spool but again, not anything I needed. I don't fly fish anymore... As I browsed around, I saw a big cardboard box on the floor that has all fly tying stuff in it. On the flap is written "All prices half of original marked price". So I'm looking and there's bags of marabou, bags of hackles, capes, deer tails, belly strips thread etc. Also in it were a bunch of tools. Lots of scissors, hackle pliers, whip finishers, a couple fly boxes and stuff I'd never seen. Only problem was, most of it didn't have a price of any kind on it. Oh well, probably out of my price range too. I picked up 6 fly tying/fishing books that were basically brand new for $5 each (I'm a sucker for hunting and fishing books) and a rosewood shotgun cleaning rod kit by Crane & Crane (?) brand new in the walnut display box and figured I was done. When I went up to pay I happened to mention about the box of fly tying supplies and how almost none of it had prices on it. The guy running the sale said "Well, lets go look." Off we went... We're sitting there rooting in the box and he just says "Wanna make me an offer on the whole box?" So I thought a bit and said "Would you be offended if I said fifty bucks?" He came back with "I was thinking more like $100." I didn't have that much and said so but he said they took plastic or checks and walked away. Now, I'm not poor but I'm far from "having money", I've got a family of 5 to take care of and it's almost Christmas and things are tight but I'm looking in this box and I'm just not seeing things clearly at first. Then I start counting items and thinking about how expensive everything "fly tying/fishing" usually is. I'm seeing multiple full capes, spools of line, lots of tools and "Orvis" labels everywhere. I picked up the danged box and took it upstairs, bummed $40 from my wife and bought it for the $100 price. She thought I was nuts but I told her there was a couple hundred dollars worth of stuff in "my" box. Little did I know... I spent all day yesterday going through it, looking stuff up on line to figure out just what the heck some of it was and what it was worth. The first thing I happened to grab was a spool of the Orvis wonderline (I think that was what it was called) and it had a $65 price tag on it from the store. Brand new, never used. Cool. As I got digging, there's a couple more of 'em, then some more etc. I think there were 11 in all. GULP! that's over $600 worth of line dear! Then my son says "Hey dad, these fly boxes are made in England." Off to google land we go... Yup, Richard Wheatly #1408 and #4604. Dang, they're not very cheap. I start getting into gallon zip lock bags of tools and finding all sorts of tools where I have to look up the name. Names like Moodus, Griffin, Miltex, Renzetti, Tiemco and of course Orvis. There's pairs and pairs of scissors, bobbins and snips. Deer hair stackers and wing burners, lead wire, chenille, pipe cleaners, spectra glittery stuff and "fuzzy lead". There's a bunch of already tied flies that I think are saltwater bugs. They've got bead eyes and look a little "shrimpy" to my eye. Tied in Kenya for Orvis. There's also boxes of hooks. Quite a few hooks are saltwater hooks. Nearly everything was brand new in the plastic. Man I had so much fun sorting all this stuff out! Guess I'll have to go back to fly tying again. Cool thing is, unlike 30 years ago, now I've got two boys and the oldest for sure will be interested. Went back to the sale today and nearly everything was gone but I just happened to see a small white box on the table that was marked $40 on the lid. Inside was a Renzetti "traveler series" vice still in the factory sealed bag. I figured that would be a perfect Christmas gift for my son and grabbed it up. Lucky me, I got upstairs to pay and found out that since today was the last day of the sale, everything was half price. $20 for a brand new vice? Yea, I'll do that. Oh yea, final tally after looking everything up that was in the $100 box? $2,400.93! I've never sold an tem on ebay in my life but there are lots of duplicates in this stuff so I might have to start. Either that or put it all away for the kids.