Do Fish Feel Pain

[Dble Haul 0]

 

 

EDIT: WHOA...I HAD THOUGHT WE HAD A HUBBARD SIGHTING, BUT THIS IS JUST ONE OLD RESURECCTED THREAD! STONY'S BEEN DIGGING

 

I thought the very same thing.

 

[stony 0]

OK, here goes my rant. Have you ever seen this website http://fishinghurts.com ? I have ALWAYS thought that these people are a bunch of whacko's. They better hope they never show up at my house as the "Make My Day" law would most likely go in to effect pretty quick. I truly hope this does not upset anybody, I just want to express some of my feelings.---Thanks!

 

 

According to James Rose, a professor of zoology at the University of Wyoming, and an admitted fisherman, "Awareness of pain in humans depends on specific regions of the cerebral cortex. Fishes lack these brain regions and thus the neural requirements necessary for pain experience." Rose believes that a fish's reaction to being hooked is an "escape reaction." I fully agree!

 

Countering Rose's view is a recently released British study that claims fish do in fact feel pain. Lynne Sneddon and Michael J. Gentle of the Roslin Institute (the place that gave us Dolly the sheep), and Victoria Braithwaite of the University of Edinburgh, injected bee venom, or acetic acid, into the lips of some trout. They concluded the fish had polymodal nociceptors receptors that respond to tissue-damaging stimuli. Therefore, Sneddon and company state that fish feel pain.

 

No fishhook that I know contains bee venom or acetic acid — two caustic chemicals that would cause a biochemical reaction independent of any physical sensation. But the scientists' results pleased animal-rights activists around the world. (It's fascinating how it is okay to do things to hurt fish to support the anti-fishing position, but not okay if the results are supportive of fishing.)

 

Anyone who has ever hooked a fish knows that fish don't like it. In fact, the fight that the fish puts up when hooked is part of the excitement of fishing. But, is such a contest between man and beast automatically "cruel"?

 

Predators in nature do not show any remorse for catching and killing their prey. Human fishermen, in contrast, usually dispatch a fish quickly upon catching it, unless the fish is kept alive on a stringer so the flesh does not spoil. Each of these are humane gestures, as well as a practical ones. They show respect for the fish and this is something that PETA ignores! Wasting the flesh of an animal you catch and kill is the real ethical issue for a fisherman, aside from making the choice of whether or not to kill it in the first place.

 

Nature is cruel. The food chain is a who-eats-who world. Fish commonly eat young ducklings, mice, frogs, snakes, tadpoles, crabs, crawfish, and other fish. Big fish often impale themselves on the spines of the smaller fish they are eating, thus inflicting pain on themselves as well as their prey.

 

The eminent psychologist Erich Fromm pointed out in his masterful study of the human shadow, The Anatomy of Human Destructiveness, fishing and hunting (fishing is really a form of hunting) cannot be sadistic because the motivation of a sadist is anger and revenge, while the motive of the sport fisherman is pleasure.

 

Certainly, sadistic individuals can hunt or fish. They might catch their prey and then delight in prolonging the animal's suffering as much as possible. This is one of PETA's stances, but I have never witnessed this type of activity. However, to say all sportsmen are psychopaths is like saying all sexual intercourse is rape. Thus, if all sex is cruel, brutal, and sadistic, then all of it should be banned.

 

Over 35 million fishermen in the U.S. enjoy their sport because it involves challenge, leads to communion with nature, and whether you release the fish or enjoy some fresh, tasty, healthy food, in my opinion fishing is the most awesome activity/sport there is. Fishing also enables people to take a responsible place in the web of life. Contemplation of the basic law of life that "flesh eats flesh," as Joseph Campbell put it, leads one to develop a true reverence for life. This is why sportsmen are among the most ardent of conservationists.

 

It kinda makes you think. If the normal, average, mentally strong fisherman or hunter derives pleasure from what they do, aren't the anti or activist a$$holes really saying, "Hey. You can't enjoy yourself doing that because I can't enjoy myself doing that"? To me, that sounds more a little more like jealousy than concern over another species.

[jbarnick 0]

I gotta agree with you 100% stony. If we lose our anglers we lose some of the most staunch and passionate conservationists you may ever run into. On a lighter note...the video of bowfishing carp on that website made me remember how much fun it is

[Blues Brother 0]

Of course fish feel pain.

 

 

 

~Bryce

[Wiets 0]

We did several experiments many years ago at the university lab attempting to discover whether fish do feel pain. After constructing many contraptions, experimenting with several fish species and devising ingenious methods of inflicting small doses of pain, there is no doubt that fish do feel pain. However, the extend and depth of the pain was unclear, the re-action and results to the various stimulus used also varied substantially from the one specie to the next.

[Sean Juan 0]

Fish feel pain exactly the same was the Terminator does. Their body systems alert them to when they have taken damage or are in peril.

 

Humans imagine and fear pain. Thats why some people may not be able to watch a doctor give them a needle, but barely feel it if they are distracted.

 

A good example would probably be the difference between a boxer and a normal guy. When a boxer gets punched it hurts but he is trained to not fear it and to respond, a normal guy feels it much worse since there is surprise fear shock all rolled into that one punch.

[stony 0]

Yup, all fish know is that they don't want to get eaten.

[Houdini 0]

Aside from my initial reaction to the question, (which was 'frankly I don't give a damn'), I offer the following:

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/02/10/1044725683181.html

[dafack01 0]

My very unscientific reason why I don't believe fish feel pain like we do:

 

A bass, when a barbed hook is ripped through its lips, goes crazy (well, some do anyways). Very true. If someone put a barbed hook in your mouth, you'd do the same.

 

However, fish pull away from the direction of pull, putting more pressure on their mouth. You'd do everything possible to ease the pressure, not put more pressure on it.

 

Plus, what does a bass do when you de-hook said fish with barbed hook in its mouth? Nothing. What would YOU do if someone ripped a barbed hook out of your mouth? You'd go crazy.

 

Fish have absolutely no reaction to being unhooked with a barbed hook.

 

With that in mind, I just can't see how fish would feel pain the same as us.

[fly time 0]

I believe they feel pain, so Im never fishing again joining PETA, and will be donating all of my tying and fishing equiptment to people here on the forum!!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah freakin right, the way I see it, if someone was pulling my happy ass around with a hook in my mouth there would be tears in my eyes. I have never seen tears inn a fishes eyes, so either they are tough or feel no pain, and Im voting on the no pain.

 

 

Dustin.

[Ephemerella 0]

I suspect they feel pain, that is neuroreceptors in/near their mouths send signals to their brains indicating damage has/will occur. Most scientific evidence points to that.

 

However, I suspect they do not have the same level of concienousness like humans or mammals (or birds), that is, where pain has damaging effect on their mental well-being. I really don't think they have a mental well-being to be damaged. So the concept of cruelty as perceived by the fish really doesn't exist.

 

Some anecdotal evidence: Catch a fish on a hook. Clearly this is uncomfortable for the fish, and the fish do panic when on the line. Release the fish. Not long after the fish is eating again. In fact it may go after the same fly/lure/bait that caused it earlier pain.

 

One issue I have with the PETA folks (and I have many issue with them) is that they anthromorphasize (sp) animals. That is they attribute human characteristics to them, based on some observation that they conclude is a human characteristic.

 

Certainly we are "stewards of the creation" (I don't mean that the world was created in 7 days...another topic), that is, we are here to care for the earth and its creatures. The creatures are here for our use, but of course as responsible stewards, and as humans who can think and act beyond our own personal needs, we preserve the creatures and ensure their survival (if not as individuals, as a species). That is why fishermen (fisherwomen too) are conservationists. That's why good farmers care for the animals even though they are destined for our table. But the creatures are not human, they have no rights. They are in our benevolant care. Many (most) of these creatures do not have the ability to think in the same non-selfish way humans are supposed to. So we catch, sometimes eat, sometimes release, but always take action to ensure aquatic habitat is preserved or restored. PETA folks do not put humans as stewards of creation, but instead place the animals as equals, with the same "rights". Of course as pointed out this anthromorphasizes animals, animals that in reality only act in their self interest (conciously any way), and are incapable of conciously serving as stewards or caring for other species. But if humans are to be equals with animals (equality is commutative and transitive, so if A = H, then H = A), then be careful, as animals eat other animals, and have no "guilt" about doing do. So they will eat you. Just consider the domestic house cat and mice.... ( maybe we ARE just like the animals...?? )

 

So, screw the PETA people, go fishing, treat your quarry with respect. Take action to ensure the survival of the species of fish and their balanced ecosystem.

 

Perhaps the question is, do PETA people feel pain?

-E

[DaUP 0]

 

Perhaps the question is, do PETA people feel pain?

-E

 

now that is something i would like to study with a few "tools" :devil:

 

 

personally im with Sean Juan on this one