Skill levels?

[mcfly 0]

My wife asked me the other night if I was getting any good at tying flies. Besides the fact that I thought for a moment that she was implying that my flies looked poor she quickly said that she just wanted to know if my skills were improving. I told her I was pretty sure I was improving but that I didn't have a clue how good I was as a tyer which brought up the question of how to tell how well you really are doing?

 

I thought about it for a bit and I figured there are four levels but then I realized that everyone is a master at certain patterns and not others so how would you tell over all?

 

These are the levels I though would work.

 

Beginner - Someone who has just begun to tie.

Competent - Can tie a majority of patterns.

Professional - Can tie most patterns well and fairly quickly

Master - Can tie any pattern shown exactly and quickly.

 

So really I guess what I'm trying to find is what level I though I might be. This isn't a competition but what level would you say you are and why?

 

Also, what skills would you think a Competent, Pro, or Master tyer would have.

 

 

I'll start.

 

I'd put myself between Competent and Beginner closer to Competent.

 

Why? I can tie a large range of flies some much better than others but not all well. I have tons of trouble with smaller flies and feather wings. I started tying about 2.5 years ago but only seriously for about the past year. Some of the patterns I’m good at are Adams, Elk Hair Caddis, and Caddis pupa.

 

 

 

So, where do you think you are, why, and what skills would you expect someone who is Competent, Professional, or a Master tyer to have?

 

 

 

[Guest]

Some people tie only one type of fly or for a certain species and haven't had much experience or interest in tying other types of flies.

There good at the flies that they do tie.

 

Take for instance myself

I have tied Trout and Great lakes steelhead flies, all my life and feel I'm not too bad at it.

But I can't tie a classic salmon to save my A## and haven’t ever tied salt water flies

 

But I still feel I am a competent tier

 

[Hywel 0]

Hey McFly,

 

One criteria in your rating system that I personally don't care for is "quickly". There are world-class tyers that spend *days* working on a full-dress Atlantic Salmon fly. *g*

 

I also believe that the title of "Master" tyer is (IMO) usually something that's self-proclaimed. In other words there are a few Master tyers who are anything but Master tyers...again, just my opinion.

 

Based on your criteria...I'm not a fast tyer, nor slow. So, I guess I'm a half-fast competent beginner.

 

Hywel

[bentflyrod 0]

Is there anything before beginner like incompetent. I think I move back two steps from beginner closer to incompetent. Tryng to spin some deer hair for the irresistable has been fun. My floor looks like a barber shop.

 

BFR

[B-rad 0]

I'd say that I'm a compietent tyer

 

I started when I was 9 or 10 years old did it for a few years but then for some reason I stoped and just this year I refound my passion for it!!!!!

[mcfly 0]

QUOTE

Based on your criteria...

 

Don't base it on mine That is what one of my questions are, what are the levels and then how do you know you've reached it?

 

As OSD said he believes he is a competent tyer. Now, from receiving a few of his flies in swaps I'd argue that maybe we need something between Competent and Professional maybe Advanced I certainly thought his flies were very professional looking. I don't think it is possible to be a pro at every pattern since new ones come out every day but then it all boils down to how you anwser this question when asked, how well do you tie?

[feathers 0]

I agree that some people tie their ole' faithfuls, which I do, I tie what works in my area, I don't know what category I would be in, ummmmm, it seems when I see other people tying, there is always something I learn from it, I don't need to go off the recipes for the ones I tie, I know the materials needed, what to cut off, and I have been tying since a little girl, so at 33 with 25 years plus (wow that just made me feel old) I guess I hold my own...My passion lately has been doing up poppers, with the neice at 9 she is into fly fishing passionately and to see her smile when a bluegill sucks in a popper makes me smile more...Guess thats what it is all about...Teaching her slowly, she likes the painting part, using the airbrush, but I figure hey its a start...

 

Nice topic though, thanks....

 

feathers

[Dble Haul 0]

Why label ourselves at all? Just a rhetorical question, with a hint of seriousness.

 

I've tied thousands of flies in my life, and some would automatically think that makes me pretty darned near professional. But when I sit and tie with some of the true legends and pioneers, I feel like a beginner. I'm very self-critical and tend to underestimate my abilities, but at the same time I don't spend much time thinking about what level I'm at. In my mind labels can be a hindrance.

 

I understand the puropose of your question, but I wanted to give you my two cents because some folks can get too wrapped up in levels and not see the forest for the trees.

[Walker 0]

I have to agree with Mark on this one. I've been tying for about 27 years now, but I still have my fair share of trouble, and when I look at the flies others have tied, I have to say 'WOW, wish I could do that!' On the other hand, I can sit down and whip out a pretty decent irrisistable or humpy in no time flat. It's a good question, but a little subjective. Considering how humble the crowd is here, no one is likely to qualify themselves as a professional tyer, even though some, no doubt, are in fact just that. There's always more to learn, that's the beauty of it.

0.02

[Guest]

I believe that the label "Master Tyer" applies to a very few people and shouldn't be given out freely. Off the top of my head I would nominate Marvin Nolte and Poul Jorgensen for the title of master, everyone on the forum could come up with a name or two also.

 

I consider myself a competent tyer in some areas, but in some types of flies I'm a beginner. I think the same can be said for most of the people on this board.

 

 

[JoeFish 0]

i started tying when i was 13 ish, im now 21.

 

i stopped for a few years, now the last year i have really been doing it alot more.

 

even more so in the last 2 months. I guess i would say I am a "barely competent" tier, where i can tie the pattern i am after, and they look better after a few ties.

 

or maybe i am just an "advanced beginner" as i learn something new just about every time i do a fly.

 

 

i think im lucky my flies even catch fish, as the fishing part needs work. I have been getting out just about every weekend for the last 2 months and sometimes get skunked, but tend to do better on some days.

[Graham 0]

I agree with Trout Bum especially his short list of true masters. I believe I am a fairly competent tier, have good fine motor skills with my fingers, well, more so a few years ago when I spent much more time at the vise. If reading glasses were unavailable I probably couldn’t tie much more than my shoelaces. I do like to experiment, collect aquatic bugs and try to copy them but to me ultimately the fish is the judge. If the fish bite my flies, they’re good enough.

[njsimonson 0]

Beginner - but I have fun doing it, and that is all that matters! That and the occasional bluegill that takes a chance on my offerings!

[munky 0]

QUOTE

If reading glasses were unavailable I probably couldn’t tie much more than my shoelaces.

 

LMAO

 

I would say I am close to compietent. I tie every day for the last 3 years, and I try alot of new patterns. When I try a new pattern, I tie six. By the sixth one, I have figured out more or less how to tie the fly properly.

 

I would only really consider my self to be a professional if I were tying as a commercial tyer.

 

I would nominate tyers like Jorgenson for a master class, because of the skill involved in the flies he ties.

[Guest]

Well, I'm far from a "Master Tyer", but when it comes to fishing bait, I'm a "Master Baiter".

 

Ok, seriously. I wouldn't use the professional as a rating. Why? Because anyone who has all the fundamental skills could be construed as a "professional", depending on which definition you want to go by. For example, a professional could be one paid to tie flies, or a professional could be someone who is qualified to teach apprentices. I would've been a professional when I was still a "beginner" lol. But I could tie a few patterns well (but only TWO styles of flies, that's it).

 

I like this system,

 

Beginner: Just tossing materials on the hook, and occasionally asking for advice. Every fly that comes off the bench you think is quite well tied and works of art.

Novice: coordinating what you toss on the hook, while asking for advice, at this stage you start seeing yourself as getting better tying flies. You look at your "beginner" flies and cringe.

Advanced: well coordinating what you toss on the hook, while critiquing horribly what you've tied quite well, asking others why it looks like crap when it's really quite nice looking. You LOATHE what you tied as a beginner, and cringe at the Novice flies.

Master: ties quite perfectly. Tosses away "crap" flies that most of us would call "Works of art". Just laughs at the three previous stages. But still his/her worst own critique. When this person starts tying flies, usually drinks a single malt or drink of choice while playing mozart, pixie dust falls from the heavens while the clouds part and the sun shines on them. Very few of us see this level.