Spey lines

[switch10 0]

I'm thinking about building a 13 foot 7 weight primarily for fishing pyramid lake in Nevada. That is, standing on a ladder in about 4 feet of water. My goal is to get more distance throwing big heavy streamers than I get with my single handed 7 weight. Which type of line would be ideal for this kind of situation (skagit, scandi, etc.)?

 

I should also mention that I've never casted a spey rod before, but I don't mind a learning curve if it means better results in the end (I've read that some line types are much easier to cast than others).

 

Any and all help is very much appreciated.

[Piker20 0]

Shallow water or deep water? If you are fishing in shallow water and or fishing for fish in the upper layers of water a Spey line will be better because the head can be 55, 60 even 75foot and will land much more gently on the water. A 13ft rod will be struggling to throw heads over 55ft if you dont have good spey casting skills. A 15ft rod will make it much easier.

If you are fishing deep water or for fish down deep, a scandi head will be easy to throw, Rio AFS type lines will allow you to mix and match tips for sinking densities.

If you plan to throw big HEAVY flies like brass tubes etc then a Skagit will turn these over for fun with even the heaviest T18 tips but it is like hitting the water with a bat. Not good for fish that are spooky.

[switch10 0]

Yeah, I'm planning on getting down pretty deep 30-50 feet in most situations. I'll check out that Rio line, thank you. Will a 13 foot rod have trouble casting that line? Should I just go with a 15 foot?

[Piker20 0]

If you are looking to sink a fly down as deep as that go Skagit all the way. An Intermediate Skagit head with a 12-20ft T18 tip will sink fast. You dont want to be spending fishing time counting down a sinking line. You want a line that sinks fast. The skagit head will lift the tip and fly up from the deep easier than any of the other systems I have heard of (*) and will be fine with a 13ft+ rod, in fact check the century stealth 12ft 9 that was designed just for throwing these types of heads. You want a blank that is fast and stiff. Too tip to middle and you loose the action you want to launch these heavily forward tapered shooting heads.

(*) you are casting from a sustained anchor with these types of lines. A traditional spey line is mostly cast with a touch anchor cast, so the line is lifted upstream and out of the water, the leader portion touches the water and the forward portion of the cast is started. With skagit you aren't trying to lift the tip leader or fly out before making the forward push, the weight of the skagit tip lifts all this out for you and the tip-leader-fly being anchored in the water is what loads the rod.

To complicate things a little further, original skagits were made to a set length formula of ratio Rod:head:tip:leader. So some head kits came with cheater lengths of level fly line that helped you make your head tip length match the rod you wanted to use. With the skagit becoming more and more popular the more modern kits like Vision ace skagits are simply a head of grain weight X and then a tip of sink rate X and away you go.

When I can find some links I'll pm you but if it were me, ignore spey, scandi or SH lines and just look at skagit lines and how to set them up.

[KHoss 0]

you're standing on a ladder in still water stripping flies, correct?

i really don't think you want a "spey rod" and "spey line"

 

- you'll be Overhead casting... not spey casting

- make sure you are approaching all aspects (rod building and line)as an overhead rod NOT as a "spey rod"... complete different

- spey lines (skagit and scandi shooting heads) are made to be spey cast... not over head cast... and are the exact opposite in taper and design

 

There are 2handed rods and lines build for overhead,,, Beulah and TFO are two companies making them

the motion of casting in this style is not going to be fun on a ladder, since you are doing more rocking and using your body

 

if you get a "spey setup" you are just going to be frustrated and give it up

why do you want a 2handed rod? just for the novelty and gimmick?

 

 

personally, i'd stick with a single hand rod, 20-30' of T-whatever, and some mono running line

you should be able to cast that damn far

[Piker20 0]

 

Have a look at this clip of a guy using a 13ft rod and a skagit head. He makes the short roll cast to lift the gear up, then a short forward flick and the rig flies out. It is an effortless way to fish. It is not anything like proper spey fishing. That said Hoss is correct, the rod to throw this type of line is not suited to over head casts. It can do them but you would be better using a single + tips as Hoss says if OH is your casting method of choice.

I brought a 12ft rod for my salt fishing where the flies need to penetrate strong winds, a skagit will out cast ANY other line in winds. The DH 12footer also makes swinging flies, lifting and launching really easy and I dont need to be double hauling anymore like some demented violin player. lol

[switch10 0]

Piker, thanks for the suggestions. Skagit it is then!

 

Khoss, I want to be spey casting, you don't think this would be possible from a ladder in still water with a strip basket?

 

I'm looking to add more distance. Double hauling my single handed rod throws line far, but I was under the impression that I could get even more distance with a spey rod.

[Piker20 0]

Distance is certainly the bonus of spey fishing. The spey was partly created due to the wide rivers and limited space for overhead casts. If you can't hit 60yards on the Ness you're considered a bit of a wet skirt. With the shooting head lines distance is not necessarily easier but cutting through wind is definately easier and you dont need to learn spey casting. You are really just aggressively moving the tip of the rod like throwing a blob of mud off the tip. A stripping basket will work fine. I was having just this conversation with someone last week, in the UK salmon anglers go on about the skill of holding 3 or 4 loops of line in the fingers of their hand holding the rod above the reel ready to shoot. You never see one with a stripping basket but it is so much easier especially if wading.

[whatfly 0]

Another consideration is that you are going to be frothing the water around you with a spey cast regardless of how good you are, and that is only going to move the fish out further (especially in the spring). While Pyramid does sometimes reward the fisher who can cast farther, that is usually because the ladder line moves the fish out further. More often than not the fish are well within a normal cast (or at your feet). You might want to seriously consider dumping the spey rod idea and look into building a switch rod instead (typically a rod in the 11' range). With a switch rod you can spey/Skagit cast or overhand cast depending on the situation. You may find it a more versatile tool in the long run, and when used overhead it will get you a bit further out. As a beginner you should also be warned that all these casting styles for two handed rods were developed for moving water which facilitates loading the line. You can still do it in stillwater, but it is not nearly as efficient and takes more than a bit of practice. Good luck.

[switch10 0]

Thanks for the suggestion whatfly.

 

After some reading, it looks like a switch rod would be perfect for me. I'm ordering a blank today! Thank you.

[atxdiscgolfer 0]

Ive been thinking about ordering a switch or spey rod for Tarpon fishing - it may be the only way i can get that 60-100 ft cast required to catch 1.

[Piker20 0]

Just remember that an #8 spey head is nearly the weight of a #10 single handed line depending on brand. You will want to look for presentation heads as opposed to out and out distance heads or the landing will be too splashy.

[KHoss 0]

longer rod does not = longer distance

Trying to OH a 2hander/switch is not accurate and not a magic bullet

 

 

technique and practice with the correct pairing of line to rod is what you should be looking into... not a longer rod

 

I really cringe when i hear people talking about switch/2handed rods for applications that are suited for single handers

[switch10 0]

longer rod does not = longer distance

Trying to OH a 2hander/switch is not accurate and not a magic bullet

 

 

technique and practice with the correct pairing of line to rod is what you should be looking into... not a longer rod

 

I really cringe when i hear people talking about switch/2handed rods for applications that are suited for single handers

I've watched several videos on youtube of people spey casting in still water. It is completely possible. I'm not planning on over handing at all. I've seen people at Pyramid using spey/switch rods, and throwing line much further and with much less effort than us single handers putting in tons of effort double hauling. Sorry if it makes you cringe , but after 3 days of standing on a ladder for 13 hours/day straight, double hauling every 5 minutes gets pretty old for me.

[flytyer62 0]

Switch10,

look at an 11-11.6 switch rod with a switch line. You can cast over head with it and power out a lot of line. I went to a local spey clinic with Michale Muari and he has a method of casting a 11 switch rod using both hands that is both easy and very efficent. He actaully uses it for surf casting in salt water but it should translate over to this type of fishing as well. One other note have you treid a shooting head system on you single hander(may be a stupid question) a lot of people I have seen fishing still waters use them and can throw a good amount of line with them especially if your throwing a heavy sink tip. Check out the RIo site they have a lot of good info.

 

Thanks,

 

Steve