Bird Flu?

[seriesofseven 0]

I was just in contact with my sister who attends George Washington University Medical School in Washington D.C. and she was talking about different strains in the Avian Flu virus. I was under the false impression that flu sicknesses can only be acquired through poultry consumption but it turns out that the handling of it's feathers poses the same risks. It struck my curiousity and today I have sent an email to the company who produces the feathers I use in Roseburg, Oregon but haven't had a reply yet. I don't think this is reason to flip out but some strains of avian flu are potentially dangerous and it's most deadly strain has infected humans. Has anyone out there asked this question before? I think we should, we handle more birds than most and should take care in what we use.

[flytyingscotsman 0]

 

There is an article in the current issue of 'Fly Tyer' about this subject.

 

DO NOT fling out your stocks of capes and saddles.

 

There is absolutely NO RISK to anyone handling fly tying materials.

 

Apparently the virus can only remain alive for a short period after the

infected bird has died.

 

 

[seriesofseven 0]

I checked on that just now and Fly Tyer magazine has obviously done VERY little research on the topic if I can discredit their opinion in a few minutes. According to the CDC, (Center for Disease Control and Prevention), It is possible to contact Avian flu virus (H5N1) through feathers from birds that have been dead for weeks or more based on a study in Azerbaijan where a family died from contact through the feathers in their pillows. All I'm saying is that it is in anyone's best interest who handles bird parts of any kind to do their own research rather than listening to sources with obvious influences from advertisers, etc. I'd also like to point out that I'm not planning on throwing away ay feathers myself, instead I am looking into the general flu vaccines available. Note that two of the currrent four antiviral vaccines could work fine for the strand (H5N1) and they are oseltamavir and zanamavir. Saying there is absolutely NO RISK is very irresponsible and should be taken for nothing more.

[Joe Hard 0]

I am pretty sure most fly tying material handlers are on top of this. That big gun, by the way what is it a 44? should keep you safe. Mercury levels are rising in fish, wildlife are not reproducing and their numbers are decreasing. Is it any wonder, that our change "for the better" has serious repercussions? I am so glad that we, as the human race are smart enough to combat and rectify our mistakes. Something so harmless as "feather trade" should and is kept under protective scrutiny, as per say. The majority of the population are more concerned about the heath and welfare of there food consumption, that what you mentioned could easily slip through without notice. Due to public awareness and many habitual people that use feathers and fur for fly tying and other crafts. Great restrictions and limitations have been put into effect.

 

I have spent many years sitting on a government advisory board with the Fisheries and Oceans Canada and know how things work, at least here. I quit due to political bull crap, and am all the more better for it. There is no doubt in my mind what you are saying is true, BUT, as I have mentioned. Our Fly tying material handlers are well aware of potential dangers and have strict guidelines. I am a firm believer in my fly tying material suppliers. I also receive many materials harvested from the hunt. To me if not taken care of imeadiatly and properly, buy modern, traditional or primitive and effective methods are just as dangerous. I'm not saying that any or all wildlife is infected, nor captive breeds, but one would think that evolution would have some combatant against "us"!

 

From the time I was old enough to walk, I went to farm and poultry shows with my father. He raised show birds, and did well. I am 43, and for years before me infestation and disease has been, and always will be, suspect and watched.

 

I believe you are tossing out well known facts, nothing new, nothing that has not been considered. Facts are facts and as far as facts go the Bird Flu is under control. Forgive me if I am wrong, and if you have facts, share them.

 

I am not 100% sure but one of the salt water guys said, "Its not the target fish we are worried about, its the bait they feed upon" So true, with out the bait the "target" species would collapse. So would the rest of the food chain. I do not believe the feather and fur industry, is willing or ready to collapse and also think that anything is possible. Please share any info you have access to!!

 

[Inconnu 0]

I have had a passing thought or two on this as well, but I do not buy feathers from overseas anymore and until that particular strain shows up here I am not overly concerned. There are alot of potential diseases out there associated with untreated skins as well and one should take care in handling any of them as well. Good point, perhaps there will be more input on this. Do we have a member from the disease control people? A health department?

[seriesofseven 0]

Joe,

thanks for you response and any other response this brings. We can all agree that there are far more important things to concern ourselves with in the natural world and I hope I don't fend off a much needed check and balance for the human population. :devil: I just wanted to see where the talent's minds were in my new past time and what conversations have been regarding the topic. I'd rather be asking why my fellow neighbors cart there families around in a suburban without a trace of mud on it, or why my country is still producing green house gasses at the levels we were in the 70's, or, or, or, or, and it goes on. I'm here to learn about tying flies but I also know there are few better places to find such a number of people who care about salvaging what we can of the natural world not only for our future generations' time but ours as well. I'm still waiting to hear from Roseburg to learn what my supplier does to screen for viral infections for my own purposes and any further information I have could be considered common knowledge until someone tells me there is 'no risk' as opposed to some risk. Avian flu is only a commonly talked about virus, there are hundreds, none of which require its' host to be living for it to survive. Dirty Harry has nothing on the .454 Casull!!!

[flytyingscotsman 0]

I have had a passing thought or two on this as well, but I do not buy feathers from overseas anymore and until that particular strain shows up here I am not overly concerned.

 

 

The rules governing feather imports have changed as a result of this issue; anything from Asia

with the pelt attached is not allowed into the US (as a result there is an ongoing Chinese neck shortage,

as many may have already noticed).

 

 

[seriesofseven 0]

So there is a risk now?

[flytyingscotsman 0]

So there is a risk now?

 

No.

 

Quote from article :-

 

"Dr Whiting said government rules have changes for importing feathers. Even though

he insists the decision is not based on good science".

 

By the way, if you're going vaccine shopping, you'd better cover H5N2 while you're at it.

[Iowaflyguy 0]

 

Can you give a citation for that CDC report I would like to read it.

[Guest]

Sorry to disagree with the alarmists, but that's what you are. There is virtually no chance of contracting avian flue from flytying feathers, for the simple reason, that they've been sterilized prior to sale via processes that would kill the virus (Typical: I see this in students all the time. Only look at half of the problem, but not what's being done ABOUT the problem eg. last semester I had a bunch of students give me an answer for a takehome test...complete with documentation...but they didn't look at the date or follow up...that hypothesis had been disproved 20 years ago). However, if you are growing birds from your own flock, and you don't have those sterilizing facilities, you might have a problem. Since I buy all my feathers commercially, I'm not worrying about it. And if you are wondering, these days all imported feathers are also required to be sterilized. There is a much bigger risk of avian flu from migrating birds than anything else.

 

Mark Delaney

[Crotalus 0]

Great post Mark!!

[J. R. Caddick 0]

I checked on that just now and Fly Tyer magazine has obviously done VERY little research on the topic if I can discredit their opinion in a few minutes. According to the CDC, (Center for Disease Control and Prevention), It is possible to contact Avian flu virus (H5N1) through feathers from birds that have been dead for weeks or more based on a study in Azerbaijan where a family died from contact through the feathers in their pillows. All I'm saying is that it is in anyone's best interest who handles bird parts of any kind to do their own research rather than listening to sources with obvious influences from advertisers, etc. I'd also like to point out that I'm not planning on throwing away ay feathers myself, instead I am looking into the general flu vaccines available. Note that two of the currrent four antiviral vaccines could work fine for the strand (H5N1) and they are oseltamavir and zanamavir. Saying there is absolutely NO RISK is very irresponsible and should be taken for nothing more.

 

 

From what i read in the Fly Tyer article by Dr Tom Whiting who happens to be a poultry geneticist and a consultant to the CDC on Avian Flu there is no risk in the handling of our fly tying materials. He stated in the article that the virus can only live a few hours after the host dies.

 

I think most of us need to be more worried about the mothballs or flea collars that we use as pest control in our materials than we do about the bird flu.

[Joe Hard 0]

The scary thing is that all birds can carry the disease. Birds are dropping all over the world. Its a big thing here as crows from all over the world come here to roost. Our town has cut down all of the remaining tall trees. The police do a regular drive by and shoot blanks at the crows to make them move. Its crazy as the only remaining tall trees surround the hospital, One of the biggest incomes of the area is chicken production. I know many chicken catchers. I also know of many chicken raising barns that throw out dead birds for Eagles. I mean hundreds of barns throwing out tons of chickens on a weekly basis. We have (and there is a sign on the highway) what you call an eagle watch. I am not kidding you can see 30 or 40 eagles sitting in trees behind all these chicken plants. Its dangerous as people stop in the middle of the road, jump out of there cars to take pictures. I tell no lies when I go to the shore to dig worms, several of the roads that lead to the shore are through farmers fields that raise chickens. They have certain spots where they dump dead and sick birds. I see 3 to 30 Eagles a day. The farmers get a "bin" is what we call it. Same size as a tub when it comes to commercial fish, about a tonne. The bins are used for apples and just about everything that grows here. I know for a fact that they do not wash these bins. They are made out of wood. Back to the migrating crows. They come here from all over the world. It is no longer on the news as all the trees and the police have driven them to outskirts. The crows also feed on the dead chicken carcases. They leave and return to different parts of the world . I am sure if you look deep and hard enough you will see what I just said is fact. There is no control over that. Its a well known fact if you see a dead bird call the authorities. the fact that the majority of fly tying feathers come from birds that are secluded from "the real world" means 2 things. The diseases that"natural" birds get is slim. 2 The "penned" birds have no way of natural defense against these diseases and infections.. Its no different from the common cold. scary if you really think about it as every virus, disease and what have you that can be transported by air, the birds or mammals winds up on our laps.. This is getting into a world wide spread, Its now and will not get Any better. Everything goes into the ground one way or another. weather it be a simple virus or tonnes of chemicals sprayed on the ground by farmers. It all ends up in the ocean. The Human race has been so aware of the effects it is amazing that many things still exist. You got the chicken pox, mumps or some kind of cold flu. You are immune to that strain. People that grow our fur and feathers deal with these things on a day to day basis. I love what we. I do. Sooner or later there will be no cures. Ask Tom Whiting how many barns were burnt. Its only a matter of time that the human race will grow so large that its actions will not be controllable. We are almost there now. Watch and see! scary isn't it. What are we supposed to do. What I find amazing is that world record fish are getting caught. Trout swim in many streams. Its like a sign that every thing is going to be alright. Its not, in the last 30 or so years I have never heard 1 news report that people are living longer. If you really look into what is happening, as far as the "experts" say its grim. Your dammed if you do and dammed if you dont.. Enjoy what you got while you can!!!!!!!!

[scotsman 0]

As a British citizen I would vent my frustration that most people on this site seem to think that this forum consists of only Americans.

 

I'll quote a quote from 'flytyingscotsman' (a disgrace to the Scottish) who I assume as a fellow British citizen might have a little bit more sympathy to the fact that the world doesn't revolve around America. I guess not.

 

"Dr Whiting said government rules have changes for importing feathers. Even though

he insists the decision is not based on good science".

 

It's not all about about America and your selfish ways. Since the entire forum is not made up of all americans I would say there could still be some risk.

 

 

Another subject I would like to touch briefly on, viruses do not die off as soon as an animal dies. So long as there are still proteins in it's host a virus can live weeks after the host has died. At the World Health Organization's website there is a story in which a family likely contracted avian flu from feathers that were more than a few weeks old. Does this thought make me an alarmist too?

that link: http://www.who.int/csr/don/2006_03_21a/en/index.html

 

One last thing, Chemprof2001 who writes

'Since I buy all my feathers commercially, I'm not worrying about it. And if you are wondering, these days all imported feathers are also required to be sterilized.'

 

Was it not a wee while ago that your food chain 'Taco Bell' had an outbreak of E-coli? In order to seperate 'student' thinking from common sense, your food industry claims to keep a watchful eye on it's produce. What went wrong? What makes you think that your feathers share the same scrutiny when it is being 'sterilised'?