Iowaflyguy 0 Report post Posted January 13, 2007 I wanted the source of that CDC report because it sounded like an urban myth to me. Any way I did some searching on line and here is what I found. There have been some cases of human avian flu in Azerbaijan. Probably 7 confirmed. It is difficult to be 100% sure due to poor laboratory conditions there. The source of the infection was probably from villagers handling dead swans. The birds (wild) were plucked for there feathers. Since it is now illegal to hunt the birds the people were reluctant at first to tell how the contact came about. If there ever was a confirmed risk from old feathers I am sure notice of it would be quickly posted here. If I was ever in danger it would be from hunting ducks. Wild water fowl do contract the virus, and do migrate. That is how it will probably one day enter North America. If I were to worry about things in descending order of probability I doubt that I will ever live long enough to get to this one. Tom Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
seriesofseven 0 Report post Posted January 13, 2007 Joe, I'm with you over-all. And I'm glad someone finally stood up for our over seas friends!!! Anyway, I posted two things today and the one I finally got an answer to but I'm still a bit lost. How d I use the members map??? Every time I click on it it says 'already entered'. Thanks for all of the responses on the bird virus. I do think it's odd that Dr. Whiting is denying any risk as a consultant to the CDC when the CDC says that viruses do continue to be a threat after the bird dies. Maybe poultry geneticists can be wrong? Or perhaps not worldly. But our control is limited to all sorts of things and I'm thinking Joe must have some anthropology in his background? Maybe birds have been infecting humans since Dolni Vestonice flute making? We'll have to talk about it sometime. Good night all! Welcome to the forum 'Scotsman'. kind of late, isn't it? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Report post Posted January 13, 2007 The map seems to ha ve a glitch in it on FTF, try accessin g it from the TFF site or RBF site instead. Mark Delaney Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Report post Posted January 13, 2007 scotsman, Many of your points are well taken. There seems to be a much greater problem with avian flu in Europe than Asia. My comments were to U.S. residents and referred to our Department of Commerce rules. Some viruses do have prolonged lives outside of hosts, but not all. Some are quite fragile and do indeed perish quickly outside of hosts. Some others can last years (fortunately the ones of those that I know of only infect plants). Influenza can be quite serious. It is thought that the Spanish flu pandemic of the 1917-19 was a mutated avian flu able to be transmitted by air-born means. But there are sterilization methods that will destroy the viability of almost all of them. I can't comment on the rules in Europe, since it not one unified code. Each country would be a little different. Mark Delaney Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Blueman89 0 Report post Posted January 13, 2007 As a British citizen I would vent my frustration that most people on this site seem to think that this forum consists of only Americans. I'll quote a quote from 'flytyingscotsman' (a disgrace to the Scottish) who I assume as a fellow British citizen might have a little bit more sympathy to the fact that the world doesn't revolve around America. I guess not. "Dr Whiting said government rules have changes for importing feathers. Even though he insists the decision is not based on good science". It's not all about about America and your selfish ways. Since the entire forum is not made up of all americans I would say there could still be some risk. I can assure you that "most people on this site" don't think it's only Americans. We know and love the fact that our members are from all over the globe. I don't see anything in this thread or on this board that suggests what your saying. As you read more and become familiar with this site you'll see that. And I don't care if you don't like America's policies. Believe me, plenty of us don't like alot of them either. But I don't like you coming here and saying that the American's are selfish, and don't care about anyone else. I believe most who posted here use American bred hackle and that's the reason they don't feel at risk. I will agree with you though that someone outside the US could be at risk depending on their sources. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flytyingscotsman 0 Report post Posted January 13, 2007 As a British citizen I would vent my frustration that most people on this site seem to think that this forum consists of only Americans. I'll quote a quote from 'flytyingscotsman' (a disgrace to the Scottish) who I assume as a fellow British citizen might have a little bit more sympathy to the fact that the world doesn't revolve around America. I guess not. "Dr Whiting said government rules have changes for importing feathers. Even though he insists the decision is not based on good science". It's not all about about America and your selfish ways. Since the entire forum is not made up of all americans I would say there could still be some risk. If time was taken to actually read the thread, 2 things would have been realized :- 1. The quote was lifted directly from 'Fly Tyer' magazine. A constructive move by 'scotsman' would have been to quote from the British media. 2. The post starter 'seriesofseven' stated that he had contacted the company where he purchases his materials in OREGON USA about any risks involved. The entire forum may not be made up of Americans but I would be willing to bet that a very high percentage of the capes and saddles being used by tiers are bred in the US. The purpose of this forum is to exchange ideas & tips about the subject of fly tying. Until now, I haven't seen nationality get in the way of that - has anyone else ? Fly Tying Scotsman Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
seriesofseven 0 Report post Posted January 13, 2007 You all haven't had enough of this subject yet? I guess I don't bring out the best in people at all. I read through again after hearing all of the nationality accusations and would hate to say this but if I had just joined this site yesterday, as the guy from Scotland did, I would see people narrowing this topic to america. I just stated that I would check my local provider for information on what steps they take to keep me safe... That meant that anyone else who cared about this subject no matter what Dr. Whitey says could solve their questions by a phone call or email to that local place, not in the US but wherever the members may live. If I was reading this forum for the first time I might have come to the same conclusion, in fact, I myself was feeling ganged up on for just bringing up a topic I felt the forum excused without thinking through entirely. Did I offend anyone??? Besides a consultant for the CDC of course. I'll likely have to wait until Monday now to hear back from my supplier in Oregon but when I do I'm sure I'll just hear that I'm taken care of and have nothing to worry about. I bet Taco Bell would want you to think the same but the Scotsman was right, things go wrong, people make mistakes, and that can happen anywhere. I'm not being an alarmist, I'm not looking at this like someone's students who only research half a problem and call it a fact (middle finger), I'm just saying it's possible that you might want to take your security blanket with a grain of salt. That's not fact, it's just putting it out there. I'm also going to post something much lighter hearted in the 'Lodge" today. -Hope you find time to enjoy it though it's not tying related. ryan p.s. Please check out the lodge today if you have time. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fly time 0 Report post Posted January 14, 2007 I am reading this post for the first time, and must say, Im ashamed to see some of the comments posted here, hell even sickend by some of em. If any of you are worried about your hackles, just send em to me, and Ill take care of em All capes and saddels that are bought in stores cannot be contaminated, because of the cleaning process, so why worry, that is unless your the one that works at the place that does the cleaning process. Dustin. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Termite 0 Report post Posted January 14, 2007 I would definelty NOT make a pillow out of my hackle! I suggest you all do not either! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Report post Posted January 14, 2007 series of seven: When you do a bad job on ytour research, I WILL CALL YOU ON IT. Giving me the finger?? Four fingers are are usually pointing back at the problem...And that's the nastiest youj'll ever see me get...no fingers at all...they're all yours.... In case you haven't noticed my name, I'm a scientist..in fact I have degrees ion biochemistry and inorganic chemistry. This topic has been beat to death. Believe what you want, but the major danger withing the US of avian flu is still from migrating birds... There has been a case of avian flu (different strain) getting into domesticated egg laying flocks years ago in the US...all the birds in the area were destroiyed and burned. I'm not saying it isn't serious, but you aren't likley to get it from your hackles. Mark Delaney Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fly time 0 Report post Posted January 14, 2007 I reccommend that this topic be locked, its getting way outta hand. Dustin. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Report post Posted January 14, 2007 I'm done, and agree with flytime..jusy spinning wheels... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CapeBSalar 0 Report post Posted January 14, 2007 I agree. It's unfortunate that this topic has gone south. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
