What makes a Spey fly a "Spey" fly

[deflyguy 0]

I have been around fly fishing for bit now and I have never really gotten a decent answer to this question. I know what Spey flies are because I can identify the pattern, but what aspects of the pattern truly make the fly/pattern a Spey? Sometimes I feel like I could throw one of my streamer patterns on a sink tip, swing it with a two-hander, and call it a Spey...but I am not sure if that really flies (no pun).

 

Any clarifications would be great. I have always felt that I am missing some fundamental idea about Spey (and Dee as well I guess)

 

:help:

[Futzer 0]

Think of it as a large soft hackle. The use of the spey hackle it the main characteristic that makes it so. Heron feathers were a main ingredient, as they were long enough to palmer up the body and end with a "hackle" that folds back the length of the hook or more. While palmering the hackle is not a requirement, the long hackle folded back is the key. Finding good spey hackle these days in the U.S. is a little difficult, as heron is protected. Large Schlappen hackles work, but for larger sizes it is not as good as Heron. The hackle should be folded back like the silhouette of a football.

 

Anyway, this is a real basic explanation, and I am sure there will be many clarifying posts to your thread.

 

Cheers, Futzer.

 

[Old Hat 0]

Someone can correct me if I am wrong. I have been learning to tie Spey flies and this is what I have learned so far. Most flies called "spey flies" are not traditional spey flies.

 

From what little I have learned so far...

 

Traditional Spey flies have:

NO tail

NO tag

Very thin floss body that ends above the hook point

Long hackle palmered (spey style) the full length of the body

A rib of 5 turns up the body

Throat that extends to the hook point

A tented wing (often bronze mallard) that lays generally low across the top and ends at the back of the floss body

A very small head set back just little from the eye of the hook

 

There may be more "rules" or corrections to these, but this is generally what I have been told is a traditional spey fly.

 

Now you see lots of "spey flies" with tails, tags, dubbing, thick bodies etc. Are these speys? I think they are spey style flies, but can they be called speys....who knows. :dunno:

[Normand 0]

heres some history

 

http://books.google.com/books?id=pmtRejgo8...Jy1ZuUcOo98gJlU

 

some flies

 

http://www.elilabs.com/~rj/fishing/flies/s...title_page.html

[halcyon 0]

Old Hat,

Just a note. The original Spey flies were tied with Berlin wool bodies. Your comment about the wings is right on. The wings form what has been described as the bottom of a dory or row boat.

 

Futzer,

Of the 16 "old Spey flies" in Autumn's on the Spey (first published listing of Spey flies), if memory serves, only 3 used Heron the rest used Spey Cock hackle, which from what is known of this now mythical bird, is very much what Whiting Spey Hackle is.

 

Normand,

I would suggest that most of the flies on the Brown website you mention are not traditional Spey flies. Many are Syd Glasso style Spey flies with upright feather wings, several are Dee flies (a completely different style indeed), and some are not Spey flies at all just wet flies with long fibered palmered hackle. They are all effective and beautiful flies for sure, but they are not traditional Spey flies.

 

 

[Futzer 0]

Great Info. Halcyon. Thanks. Futzer

[Old Hat 0]

Thanks Halcyon.

[buggybob 0]

Halcyon, good presentation for those who are confused about the difference between the original spey flies and what can best be described as spey style flies. For those who have the opportunity to look at the original 16 spey flies as documented by A.E Knox in Autumn on the Spey, the originals were fairly somber flies representing the colors found in nature and locally obtained materials and natural dyes at the time. Now we have more colors to choose from than the old anglers would even dream about. Would they have used the colors and materials we have now ? Sure would have.

[deflyguy 0]

Thanks guys! That clears things up for me a bit :thumbsup:

 

If any of you guys tie in that style, can you make some hook reccomendations? for either classic or "new age" Spey tying

 

thanks again!

[chuckandducker 0]

hey I like the partridge salmon hooks in particular model cs10/1 the cs10/2 is the same model only with heavier wire otherwise you can order custom hooks from a hook maker I don't know any but have heard of some guys that bend the salmon irons can someone also clear up with me that a true spey fly has to from the river spey region also like Kentucky bourbon whiskey can only come certain region just what I heard awhile ago?

[halcyon 0]

buggybob,

I agree, we all use the materials we can access. Clearly, if synthetics, modern feathers and modern farmed furs had been available the past tyers would have used them. And I agree that there are Spey style type flies that are not traditional Spey flies. A great case in point are the Syd Glasso Spey style flies. The PNW style of tying in the wings like a traditional Spey fly but separated along the mid-line is another Spey style that is both attractive and effective. But I feel the origins and tradition of a particular style of fly should not be lost in the background noise of adaptation and modernization either.

 

deflyguy,

I tend to tie Spey flies and Spey style flies on the following hooks. Partridge Bartleet Traditional Salmon Fly Code CS10/1, Partridge Bartleet Supreme Salmon Code CS10/2, Partridge Salar Code CS14/1, Partridge EX/Long Bartleet Blindeye Code CS10/3, Partridge Double Low Water Code Q, Mustad Salmon Single Code SL53UBL, and Targus Code TAR 7989. There are other hooks and manufacturers but I don't use them so can not comment on them.

 

Regards,

[DHise 0]

Try Blue Eared Pheasant for a Heron substitute. Darn Heron; fish killers. :gun_bandana:

[Normand 0]

Normand,

I would suggest that most of the flies on the Brown website you mention are not traditional Spey flies. Many are Syd Glasso style Spey flies with upright feather wings, several are Dee flies (a completely different style indeed), and some are not Spey flies at all just wet flies with long fibered palmered hackle. They are all effective and beautiful flies for sure, but they are not traditional Spey flies.

 

the web site said spey flies, thats what i posted :dunno:

 

do you have any links to show true spey flies??

[flykid 0]

Ya, lots of patterns for steelhead nowdays are called spey flies but really aren't. They have a palmered marabou bodyand tied on a spey hook but aren't truly speys. Like has been mentioned traditional speys are tied pretty sparse. They were tied as shrimp imitations I believe. They have thin wool bodies, a rib (possibly multiple), a hackle palmered up the shank, sometimes a throat, and a tented bronze mallard wing. About hackle: heron was used quite often but is hard to get in the US, so you can use blue eared pheasant dyed black for a good sub. Spey cock: isn't a bird, but some believe it was just rooster side tails, which are long and black. These are pretty easy to get nowdays. For good examples go over to our sister site classicflytying.com. there's tons of traditional speys you can look at.

[Fly Tyer Guy 0]

Here is a picture form one of the old books, the classics themselves.

 

The top two and the bottom two are Spey flies. If you are interested in the middle row, the middle one is a herl wing, and the two on the outside are grubs.