Epoxy finish comparisons

[Kirk Dietrich 0]

Spoken like a true Cajun PJ!

Now, I may have gone a little off tangent with some of that post but I was actually serious about the body of that fly; I know I asked you once and you posted but I can't find nor remember. You mind sharing that again?

 

Kirk

[Peterjay 0]

Spoken like a true Cajun PJ!

Now, I may have gone a little off tangent with some of that post but I was actually serious about the body of that fly; I know I asked you once and you posted but I can't find nor remember. You mind sharing that again?

 

Kirk

 

That's OK Kirk, it's be a damned shame if you couldn't hijack your own thread. Those bodies are built up with nylon sewing thread and soaked with Flexament. I then wrap them with colored thread or sometimes Sulky Holoshimmer, Bill's Bodi-Braid or even crystal flash - just something to give it a nice base color. When that's done, I paint the bodies with acrylic glitter paint from Walmart. It dries clear except for the colored glitter. When it's dry, then multiple coats of Liquid fusion or one coat of epoxy. The heads are wrapped with crystal flash or colored thread, colored with markers where needed, and coated with LF or epoxy. It's a bit time-consuming, but I usually do a dozen or so at a time and give them a day or two to cure completely before tying the rest of the fly. I've had a lot better luck with the glitter paint than mixing glitter with epoxy or sprinkling it on. The paint goes on nice and even every time and it comes in a lot of colors.

 

BTW - thanks for the heads-up on the BSI stuff. I just checked out their website, and they've got some interesting products.

[mikechell 0]

Well, this thread turned ... less than civil, no?

Back to the original purpose of this thread. Kirk, did any of those finishes crack? Especially the ones that were more compressable?

I was wondering, since I don't paint my foam poppers. I make mine so I can replace the foam heads. Of course, My foam heads don't look so pretty.

If a finish compresses, but cracks in the process, that makes it "less" desirable, no?

[Kirk Dietrich 0]

Mike, good question. Actually the two that were compressible, the 20 min BSI epoxy and the Liquid Fusion did not crack; they were flexible and easily compressible. I squeezed the two hard ones, Flex Coat and the 30 min BSI epoxy with moderate pressure and they remained solid. My guess is that if I would have squeezed harder or hit them with something, they would have cracked. I don't know the pressure a fish puts on a bug but I think the hard ones would hold up. I always thought that with the soft foam body that the hard epoxy would crack with a little bit of pressure.

Now I just have to fish them to see how they make out in the field.

These were painted with markers but I think acrylic paint being kind of pliable and flexible would be just fine on the foam heads.

[flysmallie 0]

This is all great info. LF is new to me. Like I've mentioned in other posts on hard bodied poppers I use automotive urethane clear. But on the foam poppers that I want to have a nice finish I always use epoxy. It has a nice shine and is easy to get that smooth finish. But it ends up just being a hard bodied popper at that point. I haven't had any durability issues other than chips from bouncing off a rock or two. They will yellow and crack over time if you haven't added a UV protective coating but I have usually hung them in a tree by that point.

 

I absolutely love the finish you can get with it though. Here's one of my divers that is soft foam head covered in epoxy.

 

[Peterjay 0]

Well, this thread turned ... less than civil, no?

 

Less than civil? Nah, these guys would be deeply offended if I didn't respond with a few insults of my own. The crack about federal prisons was probably a little bit cruel though - if the feds knew half of what goes on here, we'd all be getting our mail in Leavenworth. I really was at the Justin Bieber concert - $500 is a small price to pay to watch true musical genius in action.

 

Hey FS, that's a killer-looking slider.

[Kirk Dietrich 0]

I updated my observations. After sitting in my hot shed for two days, the 20 min cure epoxy is only slightly compressible but not as stiff as it's big brother 30 min cure epoxy.

Flex Coat, still smoothest but the shiny finish dulled down. Could be I put it on to thick. I read up a little afterwards on some rod builder forums and it seems they apply two or three thin coats. Could be the heat in the shed.

30 min cure epoxy is now the shiniest.

Liquid Fusion, still the same and most compressible and flexible. Shine would probably equal the 30 min epoxy if given a second and/or third coat.

Thanks for the info PJ.

Smallie, nice looking slider/diver.

Kirk

[flysmallie 0]

Thanks guys. You are right though, it is really a slider. I'm a big fan of flies that glide across or just under the surface.

[BuzFly 0]

Kirk. Great post. I too have been going round and round trying to find a simple and durable coat for soft foam poppers. Most of my poppers are air brushed with the Copice alcohol based pens. I have been going with a very thin coat of Devcon 30 or water based polyurethane.When I put Devcon on, I keep it thin enough so you can still feel the rough surface. Keeping it thin I get less chipping, pealing or cracking but they are less durable. I feel if I put on a heavy coat on, I am now making a hard body popper and the epoxy forms a shell like an egg that will crack. I have to find the proper balance. I prefer the epoxy.When I use waterbased polyurethane I will dip the head after I spray them and let it spin dry. Once dry I will do any painted eyes, dots or line drawing. I find the pen and markers don't bleed or run and I don't ding up the paint work. When done I will dip them one or two more times depending on how big the head it. I would like to know what Umpqua uses on their crease flies. They are soft coated.

Brad

[Peterjay 0]

This is turning into a really good thread that's worth a bookmark. Thanks to Kirk for getting it going. (not to mention the fact that anyone who hopes to become a world-class smart-ass some day would do well to study the insult war above - nobody does it better than the FTF crew)

 

After reading the material on the BSI website, I've gotta say I'm impressed - those dudes seem to have a product to cover every situation.

 

It seems like the whole issue might come down to tradeoffs: it might just be that whatever's gonna reduce cracking and shattering might be a little soft for the real chompers like Spanish or bluefish or pike and vice versa. We slothful types are lucky we have Kirk to do our legwork for us.

 

BTW - on the subject of fly bodies - I forgot to mention that something like pearl crystal flash (I use FTD H2O twist) wrapped over a brightly colored thread base will give you a pearlescent body with a really nice color cast. I like this effect a lot.

[Kirk Dietrich 0]

Buz, great looking mylar poppers. I've been doing the same with you for the marker colored head prior to painting although I've been using the acrylic paint sealer. I haven't tried dipping but that sounds like a much better option. When brushing if I go back'n'forth to much, the marker will pick up into the sealer on my brush.

 

PJ, I think you hit the nail on the head with this coming down to tradeoffs. I've got to ignore the fish in the park and go cast these up against the concrete bridge. You have rocks, this urban angler has concrete park benches, bridges, lamp posts and concrete bulkheads and bank protection.

 

Kirk

[Piker20 0]

Kirk you got proper fishing. You ain't hooked a snag until you drag in a plastic bag of builders sand, or a kids bike.

 

PJ I'll try the h2o stuff over some floss on a nymph and see how that looks.

[Saltybugger 0]

Peterjay is the most interesting man in the world

[BuzFly 0]

Kirk:

 

The dipping works great but takes time to dry. It also gives you the option to mount the popper after it is painted. If I don't seal it and push the painted body onto a hook with superglue/cactus chenille the glue that comes out the back will turn the paint colors.

 

Brad

[Kirk Dietrich 0]

Brad, so, you're painting the heads without a hook in them, interesting; do you impale them on a needle/pin/nail to hold them?

I've read about and heard of people mounting the hook in their bodies the way you describe but I've never tried it. I've just always cut a slit and mount the hook as close to the bottom of the head as possible. Its just hard for me to break that habit.

I know what you mean about CA changing the marker ink color and its odd colors too, like yellow turns red, olive turns black, who knows what you're going to get. Also, if you mount first and paint over the glue, the tone/hue will be different than that of the same color on the adjacent foam head. Guess I have to try that out.

 

Kirk