So, why doesn't everyone just use furled leaders??

[Hatchet Jack 0]

So my question is, why aren't furled leaders more (the most) popular? What don't you like about them?

 

I've not used my Uni thread furled leaders very much.

Even after treating with beeswax, they promptly sank.

And on/near the water's surface, they stick out like a dick in a pie.

 

Maybe I need to try a furled leader of different material.

[ThreeJsDad 0]

 

So my question is, why aren't furled leaders more (the most) popular? What don't you like about them?

 

I've not used my Uni thread furled leaders very much.

Even after treating with beeswax, they promptly sank.

And on/near the water's surface, they stick out like a dick in a pie.

 

Maybe I need to try a furled leader of different material.

 

Like you I am not a fan of the uni thread leaders. I use a mono nylon sewing thread I buy in bulk most of the time. I have tried mono with some success. Very fine braided fishing line works well. I had someone explain it to me like this, fish see all kinds of junk floating down a creek. A leader doesn't look much different than some weeds or grass or a willow twig. I run 3-5' tippets. Give me a rod weight and a preferred tippet size and I will build you one to try.

[Poopdeck 0]

I have NO issue with your comments because you write how you live. I take issue with people who think it is too expensive but they have all Sage rods and Hatch reels. Actually I respect and admire you for keeping what should be a simple pass time just that a simple pass time. That is not my nature with anything I do so I am a bit envious. I also design and fly RC sailplanes and even there I constantly push the envelope.

 

You misunderstood the point. Personally, I do not spend near the money you listed. I realize that in the world of fly fishing I am in the minority. My point was that the majority of FF would not bat an eye at spending 12.00 bucks each for a chest pack full of furled leaders therefore they will have no desire or motivation to make one themselves. Leaders will never have the grandeur and mystique of a beautifully tied fly so the comparison to fly tying is a reach. Now cheapos like me don't want to spend 5 dollars for a tapered mono leader so I furl my own since I can't extrude my own tapered mono leaders.

 

Perhaps your right, I have been wrong many times in my life and I am to scared to risk my money on an invention. My hats off to you for taking a risk. I'm just offering an opinion, an opinion from somebody that happens to be the exact demographic you will be marketing your system to. A picture of the system would certainly help.

[ThreeJsDad 0]

I have NO issue with your comments because you write how you live. I take issue with people who think it is too expensive but they have all Sage rods and Hatch reels. Actually I respect and admire you for keeping what should be a simple pass time just that a simple pass time. That is not my nature with anything I do so I am a bit envious. I also design and fly RC sailplanes and even there I constantly push the envelope.

 

You misunderstood the point. Personally, I do not spend near the money you listed. I realize that in the world of fly fishing I am in the minority. My point was that the majority of FF would not bat an eye at spending 12.00 bucks each for a chest pack full of furled leaders therefore they will have no desire or motivation to make one themselves. Leaders will never have the grandeur and mystique of a beautifully tied fly so the comparison to fly tying is a reach. Now cheapos like me don't want to spend 5 dollars for a tapered mono leader so I furl my own since I can't extrude my own tapered mono leaders.

 

Perhaps your right, I have been wrong many times in my life and I am to scared to risk my money on an invention. My hats off to you for taking a risk. I'm just offering an opinion, an opinion from somebody that happens to be the exact demographic you will be marketing your system to. A picture of the system would certainly help.

Believe it or not I am also in the minority. I do not spend the funds I listed but I have plenty of friends who do. I started this whole thing 20 years ago because I like to build stuff and they seemed to have some advantages. You may be right about the fly tying and leader building comparison. On the flip side maybe people liek you and I can change that to where people start showing how nicely they tapered their leader and how smoothly they turn over. I really enjoy grabbing a leader and hand casting it. People's eyes get wide when they see how it casts just like a fly line.

 

I had a thought, I will ship you a machine as a demo. Since you build a bunch of furled leaders you can give me and others feedback on the machine. Who knows you may be able to help me make it even nicer !!

 

I have also been wrong on many occasions and I am sure I have a bunch more times coming......

 

Paul

[Poopdeck 0]

Your offer is very kind but I only tie about a dozen a year, just enough or me and my friends. When I first started furling I made hundreds as I experimented with different materials, lengths, tapers, a twist percentage. I'm pretty much settled in to what I like and only make them on an as needed basis. Frankly I need more flies tied then I need leaders.

 

It took me some time to come up with my method because there is a total lack of info on the web about it. What there is on the topic is confusing and archaic and the various instructional DVD's were no better (notice I'm actually helping you pitch this idea). It's no wonder people don't want to try it.

 

I also posted a thread on furling to demystify the process. It was a lengthy picture heavy thread that clearly showed the process in an excruciating step by step manner. Although a very simple process people took the length of the post, not the simple content, and decided it was way to difficult. Put simply, people are stuck in their leader ways and to convince them otherwise is like trying to get a democrat to turn republican or vise versa. Below is a link to that thread, I think:

 

http://www.flytyingforum.com/index.php?showtopic=82524&hl=furling

 

When I built my "furling machine", or what I like to call a simple gear box, it was just to be a prototype until I figured it out and then use better material and an actual electric motor for the real machine. What I found was, for my needs, it worked great and did not need to be any better. It has made hundreds of leaders and works as good today as it did for the first one. I have no doubt it will handle my furling needs until I die and my children throw it all in the trash. Because of that there is no way I would spend hundreds of dollars to accomplish the same thing with the same precision and efficiency.

 

Your market is a very small and limited one largely comprised of those with a serious DIY attitude. It's further hurt by the fact that, unlike fly tying, the need to have lots of leaders is nonexistent. Even further because of the belief that furled leaders can't be used for nymphing. Therefor, the only way to possibly change opinions, and make money, is to offer the gear box at a price people can't refuse. A price where they are willing to give it a Try. Freely provide the directions on constructing a board and building a leader and sell them an inexpensive gear box that can be powered by something (a drill) that effectively costs nothing since they already have it. Same with the "tools." Everybody already has all the tools they need to furl a leader why add to their weariness to furl by upping the ante price on "system tools."

 

I think your idea can work under the right conditions. Just my humble furling opinion offered to show another viewpoint as you decide your path. The great thing about the Good ole USA is your free to research, weigh your options, decide, risk your money, and win or lose based on your own decisions. Again, I truly wish you the best in your endeavors.

[ThreeJsDad 0]

Your offer is very kind but I only tie about a dozen a year, just enough or me and my friends. When I first started furling I made hundreds as I experimented with different materials, lengths, tapers, a twist percentage. I'm pretty much settled in to what I like and only make them on an as needed basis. Frankly I need more flies tied then I need leaders.

 

It took me some time to come up with my method because there is a total lack of info on the web about it. What there is on the topic is confusing and archaic and the various instructional DVD's were no better (notice I'm actually helping you pitch this idea). It's no wonder people don't want to try it.

 

I also posted a thread on furling to demystify the process. It was a lengthy picture heavy thread that clearly showed the process in an excruciating step by step manner. Although a very simple process people took the length of the post, not the simple content, and decided it was way to difficult. Put simply, people are stuck in their leader ways and to convince them otherwise is like trying to get a democrat to turn republican or vise versa. Below is a link to that thread, I think:

 

http://www.flytyingforum.com/index.php?showtopic=82524&hl=furling

 

When I built my "furling machine", or what I like to call a simple gear box, it was just to be a prototype until I figured it out and then use better material and an actual electric motor for the real machine. What I found was, for my needs, it worked great and did not need to be any better. It has made hundreds of leaders and works as good today as it did for the first one. I have no doubt it will handle my furling needs until I die and my children throw it all in the trash. Because of that there is no way I would spend hundreds of dollars to accomplish the same thing with the same precision and efficiency.

 

Your market is a very small and limited one largely comprised of those with a serious DIY attitude. It's further hurt by the fact that, unlike fly tying, the need to have lots of leaders is nonexistent. Even further because of the belief that furled leaders can't be used for nymphing. Therefor, the only way to possibly change opinions, and make money, is to offer the gear box at a price people can't refuse. A price where they are willing to give it a Try. Freely provide the directions on constructing a board and building a leader and sell them an inexpensive gear box that can be powered by something (a drill) that effectively costs nothing since they already have it. Same with the "tools." Everybody already has all the tools they need to furl a leader why add to their weariness to furl by upping the ante price on "system tools."

 

I think your idea can work under the right conditions. Just my humble furling opinion offered to show another viewpoint as you decide your path. The great thing about the Good ole USA is your free to research, weigh your options, decide, risk your money, and win or lose based on your own decisions. Again, I truly wish you the best in your endeavors.

 

Thanks and your comment our nymphing gave me a chuckle as we both know they work well in most applications. Just two days ago my buddy and I landed over 40 trout including some north of 4lbs and every one of them was caught on a nymph attached to a furled leader.... I am not sure how seriously I am going to pursue this project as I just got hired for a full time position in a cabinet shop. I need to do some serious market research beyond just the folks we chat with on here.

 

If you think the info is bad now regarding this subject you should have seen what was available 20 years ago when I started making them....UGH !!!

[mikechell 0]

Wow ... more than 40 trout? And people think Bluegill are easy to catch.

[ThreeJsDad 0]

Wow ... more than 40 trout? And people think Bluegill are easy to catch.

We worked hard for them and we have some skills......LOL That was also between the two of us. We had a great day with over 20 fish each but we fished a lot of water. In some ways I think brim can be harder to catch because you have to find them. I read the water very well and know how to fish to trout so they are easier for me than any lake dwelling species. For me Bass and Brim are very difficult unless they are in shallow water. If they are in shallow water I can find structure they will hang around. With a Trout stream I can read the water to find the seams and pockets they will hold in. The real key this time of year is getting a natural food source down where they are. The water temps are still pretty low so they wont move much for a meal.

 

So, no they are not easy at all but that is pretty much all I have fished for for 40 years. Put me in a Bass lake and I would be lost.....

 

PoopDeck, You have inspired some great idea this week and I thank you for getting me thinking.