Octopus

[Graham 0]

Hi diermit,

 

It’s a really kind of a long story. About a year ago there was only one realistic tying forum, that I’m aware of, and it was run by a famous realistics tyer, who is definitely one of the best there is. When I posted a realistic step by step on the FTF this person obviously was not pleased, and may perhaps have thought that his site should be the only one on the internet to showcase realistic flies, tying and techniques. The step by step I posted was removed, and upon further consideration it was decided that the FTF should have a section devoted towards realistic fly tying. Now there are a number of different realistic web sites, and as tiers we don’t have to feel like a member of a master’s stable.

 

My goal when starting the realistic section of the FTF was to have a friendly place where realistic tyers could showcase, share, exchange techniques, learn and become friends. Please feel free to ask questions, post flies, step by steps, anything that will help build your enthusiasm for tying realistic flies. We have a friendly group of amazing tyers on the FTF, many belong to other boards as well, and the more information available the better it is for us to enjoy this form of tying and most importantly to grow the numbers of realistic tyers.

 

I realize there are fuzzy lines in the sand that should be approached with caution and respect. For example, Ulf showed me how he recently developed his amazing new technique for making mayfly nymph gills. I would never show a step by step with that technique until he has shown it off in public. But tyers who figure out how to replicate certain techniques without the benefit of a tutorial have every right to feel proud and share their accomplishment. That said, tyers should feel proud to showcase their copies of other tyers flies, and this should make the originator proud as well.

 

Please jump in any time, ask questions and show your work, and do not feel burdened by rules. There are no fly tying police here, just people who share a creative passion.

 

Graham

 

[Leif Ortenholm 0]

Thanks alot Sully TM.....im glad you like da Alien.......and dont you dare to do one you self...... :j_k:

 

tye on and have fun!!!!!!!

 

Leif

[uffepuffe 0]

I agree with Graham, the ultimate praise you can get is if someone likes your flies enough to try and tie it themselves, tutorial or not. So just ask about anything you want, and don't get yourself bound by diffuse "rules", just tie away and don't forget to have fun!

 

/Ulf

[diermit 0]

Thanks guys. Hope it didn't sound like I was lumping everyone together, because I wasn't. I was really trying to say how I love the common bond and kinship of tiers. It just surprised me to hear someone claim ownership of a pattern.

 

It is exciting to have a resource such as this forum available. Flyfishers and tiers are as scarce as free money around here and it is nice to have a meeting place for like-minded people. I appreciate the encouragement and hope to do my first realistic very soon. Any tips on where to start? I don't have a clue how to approach one. Thanks again.

 

Sorry for hijacking the thread.....

[Graham 0]

Hi diermit,

 

I think you added a lot to the subject and brought things into focus, and I thank you for that. I also think Lief nailed it when mentioning that it should be FUN...

 

I'm trying to think of helping you with some direction to start tying realistics. I really like tying bodies with thin foam strips, they are easy to work with, can be trimmed after tying, take coloring real well, etc..

 

Here's a link to a cased caddis step by step. Eliminating the case and just tying the caddis worm is good practice and makes a nice little fishing fly. I tied two foam strips to the end of the hook, pull the pieces away from the hook, wrap the thread along the hook to the point where I want the first segment, then pull the foam back along the hook, then two or three thread wraps, then fold the foam out ot the sides and wrap thread up the hook to the next segment point, and continue up the hook. Wraping the thread this way virtually elliminates any chance of fish teeth cutting the thread because its all recessed within and underneath the foam. I hope this is helpful.

 

click here for little Caddis worm tying.

 

To make the fly neater looking you can cut the foam ends into a point, tye on with foam facing towards the rear of the hook, then fold towards the front and begin segmenting.

 

Cheers,

 

Graham

[diermit 0]

Wow, thanks Graham! I REALLY appreciate the insight. I'm leaving for vacation in the morning, to chase some trout in another state. I will attempt the caddis worm when I return.

 

I am honored to be a part of this excellent group. Thanks for the tips and direction.

 

Later!

[Salmonfly 0]

You know ... upon further reflection ... there is one point we are all missing. The "recognized" tyers that have already made a name for themselves and are indeed the present day "Masters" ask only that credit is given for patterns they themselves have created and are known for. Anyone that has sat down at the vise and finished a fly is proud of what they have achieved. While some at times bring this forth a bit extreme there are times a little credit certainly wouldn't hurt.

 

There is also a case to be made for the competition tyers that participate in tournaments such as the Mustad each year. Keeping a secret is the only method to use ... if you hope to achieve that goal.

 

Now don't get me wrong ... I'm all for the fun and love of the tying and I personally have no problem sharing ideas with anyone ... but it does affect some name tyers. And those are the "Masters" of the art. By not recognizing them we all miss out on a great deal. For you will not see them participate on a board that runs itself in that manner. We can all say "we don't need them anyway if that's the way they want to be" ... but in effect they are the ones that don't need us, and all we are doing is placing limits on the wealth of knowledge open to us with but a simple polite gesture.

 

There are some great tyers on this and other boards but I for one would like to learn the secrets from the likes of Bob Mead, Paul Whillock and Bill Logan to name a few. And if a simple polite gesture is what it takes ... no problem. I have benefited from fantastic advice from these gentleman. And have cut years off the learning curve in doing so. Which in turn allows me to reach further with the next attempt.

 

Bob Mead once told me ... by all means tie my fly ... but don't tie it like mine ... take my fly and take it further ... to me ... it was good advice. And I followed it with a thank you.

 

Just my $.02

[Graham 0]

Hi Salmonfly,

 

I guess, while we are discussing rules and etiquette it would be nice to get further clarification from those preaching to the choir.

 

I’m curious, you said “The "recognized" tyers that have already made a name for themselves and are indeed the present day "Masters" ask only that credit is given for patterns they themselves have created and are known for.”

 

I’ve been wondering for a while, why, you would post pictures of flies tyed by others, and when compliments follow, you say “thanks for the compliments” and never mentioned that two of the flies were tyed by Fabrizio, master of beetles.

 

link to topic being questioned

 

I mean no disrespect, just seeking clarification, because I don’t want others to take the wind out of my sails in my desire to push forward, while seeking the least turbulent path possible.

 

Respectfully,

Graham

[uffepuffe 0]

... but in effect they are the ones that don't need us...

 

 

Hi Dale! In this particular statement I can not agree. If there are one thing that I have learned from my regular job (I'm a procuct development manager and before that i was a key account manager) is the importance of customer relations. Even though we at these forums might not be the regular customers of these regognized tyers we all from time to time buy flies, materials, books and CD's from them and if they act in a way that will offend some customers the word will spread fast, this is as you know by comparison a very small market. Even the smallest negative talk can in the end cause big negative effects on a business. If a famous tyer has the "I don't need them" attidute I think that eventually he's gonna find out that he was wrong.

 

I think you for one is setting a good example on how to treat you customers, you are on these forums, you always post constructive and polite posts which in the end will be good for customer realations. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying you are this way just for the good customer realations cause I know you as a great and friendly guy!

 

What I'm trying to say (my english is'nt good enough i think) is that acting as an equal to your customers instead of beeing a pompuos jerk will always help you in the long run.

 

/Ulf

[Bud Guidry 0]

lifes to short guys, lifes to dam short

 

 

 

Bud

 

 

[Steeldrifter 0]

lifes to short guys, lifes to dam short

 

 

 

Bud

 

 

I think Bud put it the best IMO with his above reply.

 

 

I've been following this thread for awhile myself and I am not going to go into some big long deal because no one wants to read that, so I will just say this.

 

I think Some people need to ask themselves WHY they tie their flies. Is it because of their love of tying? or just to be known as a "Master" and get their ego's stroked.

 

And secondly...I am sorry but as much as I enjoy tying and having it a part of my life, and as much as I repect someone with talant.. when it comes right down to it...its just putting materials on a hook so I dont view a "master" as anyone better than the next guy in the whole scheme of life fella's.

[Salmonfly 0]

Hi Guys

Graham the flies pictured in the photos are Fabrizio's by design but they are tied by me! Fabrizio has over the last year and a half sent numerous instructions, exact tools, coatings and foam to tie his patterns.

I would be glad to forward his Email address to you if you would like to question him on this matter personally. I do NOT post pictures of others flies! Why you would make such a statement is beyond me.

 

My thoughts were not to take the wind out of your sails. It was not even about you. My only thought was regarding the closing of several avenues of knowledge available. The knowledge some of these guys possess is amazing. And unfortunately it is a source that will not always be available.

 

Ulf I agree in the fact that some may need us for sales ... most only sell to serious collectors and day to day sales don't influence them in the least. My only concern is the wealth of knowledge that may be lost. No other reason.

 

And Bud I agree ... life is too short. So consider this my last word on the subject. They were only thoughts to improve the forum.

[Redleg 0]

I come here to learn, share and crack jokes. This is a forum, that's what the almighty invented forums for. When I got to a flyshop, I ask what's working, they take me to the shelf and pull one out. I say thanks. They don't say please don't copy it, buy it. They know, when I'm low or don't have part of the recipe, they will get my business. A year ago, I never would have dreamed about getting so much FREE information form some really talented people. Masters? My opinion, yes, but maybe not to somebody else. Because of this forum, the information really isn't as FREE as it seems. The help will be paid back one way or another. Believe in Karma. When you come here to hang, you are joining the family, might be a squable now and then, but what family doesn't? The PAYMENT may come in the form of something as simple as getting help from a member when you are traveling and stranded out of town on a weekend or something more serious. Even with the forum, I've bought 3 books this year and am thinking of a couple more. So there are ways of maintaing recognition if required. Please don't feel singled out at at all, I certainly appreciate everybody's work, and would hate to see the sight slow down because a couple talented people clash. Sorry for the length, but if you read this far in the thread, you can stand a little more, now back to work.

[Bud Guidry 0]

what i found most interesting about this thread was the different opions across the board but we as individuals are blessed with that attribute. i call this an attribute because wouldn't life be boring if we all had the same opions and we were all the same in every way possibly. i have alot of respect for each and every single one of you, as friends and teachers. i've learned so much from the forum the last year and i've made friendships i cherish today. i have more friendships to gain and much more to learn and bottom line, theres no other place like this forum to aquire the knowledge we as tiers thirst for.

 

on a lighter note, i think your all a bunch of big gorrillas and nuts and i love you all for it. you've all made me laugh, you've all made me think about things more clearly. when i'm having an otherwise bad day i can come here and clear my head, get cheered up, laugh and have a good time and isn't that whats most important. it is to me and i think alot of you here feel the same way. it's humane to bump heads but it's friendships that make the world go round. lets face it guys, a friend can take critisum as well as a complement and in my opion, thats something to be proud of. hey, life could be worst, you could live in a hurricaine Zone. and even worst, we could be, not at the top of the food chain , but stuck somewheres in the middle and a higher life form could be making realistics of us. owwwwwwww, i just shuttered thinking what a realistic SD would look like. and imagine tying a smallie. where would we find a hook so small? hehehehehehe

 

Bud ( the nut ) guidry

 

[Salmonfly 0]

:hyst: Bud ... once again you've made my day. :hyst:

A realistic me wouldn't be a pretty thing either.

Thanks Bud