A letter to the fly tying Forum...

[3FL2 0]

Hello all here is am sure another great topic I thought of to discuss...

 

Dear Fly tying forum,

 

Recently I have decided that I no longer want to tie patterns that are either complex or complicated

(WATERWISP!! I CANT TIE THEM TO SAVE A BROOK TROUT). I want to tie flies that resemble the flies either in my area or similar to the species. I want to be able spend less time tying and more time fishing ( I know some are you are saying " Don't tie flies then, But I can dream right??) I will be conducting a Macroinvertebre study on My home river this Late Spring with the NYSDEC Fisheries. I don't want to wait that long because I have time now and come Late Spring starts my busy season.( I WONT BE ABLE TO TIE ANY FLIES... I KNOW SAD)

 

So to all you anglers that catch fish, Do you mainly tie patterns that are attractors, {NOW attractor patterns to me are anything that's not directly tied to represent any particular mayfly or bug naturally found in the water(i.e. Stimulators and Woolly buggers. Yes I believe that woolly's are attractor patterns! Streamers yes, but attractor patterns...Is it wrong that I don't tie these so called "caught more trout than Lefty" Patterns..HAHA. I'm not the type to put a pattern down, But I don't have as much luck or don't enjoy fishing these patterns as much as other methods I use)} or DO you the type of tyer that tie patterns that resemble the patterns in your area ( BWO, Sulfers, Hendricksons,....etc).

 

So first question Do you mainly tie attractor patterns or are you a MATCH THE HATCH GUY/GIRL?

( Recently I have been conducting my own experiment That you catch more fish fishing the nymph or Emerger pattern than matching the so hatch on the water)

IF you are a Match the hatch guy/girl What Hatch guide or where on this Internet is there a Guide on entomology and/or what guide do you use?

 

I have looked at a dozen or so patterns and I have posted numerous threads about "What patterns are the most popular?" That statement seems like it is on every fly anglers mind..but when asked makes the person who asked it look like he just asked the most ridiculous question. To me it's like hunting the same spot yesterday you saw deer doesn't mean that there will be deer there tomorrow. The same goes with fly fishing...Just because that pattern is a Top five doesnt mean that it will work in your area or all the time. Some can argue that it will work 80 % of the time, So it will still work. But I think I speak for everyone else that Fly Fishing there is not one pattern that is guaranteed to work all the time. (ex.Top five patterns thread- that was ME) But it seems that most people either create variants or tie certain patterns that have known to work in their area. I myself is a variant tyer or should I say that I tend to attempt to tie a particular pattern get to the point where it looks like the pattern I'm suppose to replicate but end up tying a variant of the pattern either I ran out of the material I was suppose to use or something went wrong with the last wrap that made it turn into a disaster.

 

So I conclude with this...This sport we have ventured in is an ever changing one. Don't let anyone tell you that what ever you think was done in Fly fishing was done already..IT might have been one time or another but today is a different day..And today you might have stocked your box with freshly tied patterns that you thought would be what was hatching but end up tying the fly to big or not the right color...It happens to every one...Unless you have a travel vise :hyst: ....

Remember Pretty flies catch people and ugly flies catch fish!

 

Thanks to everyone for reading this. If you made it all the way to here I applaud you! :yahoo: I hope I can get feed back from all of you

Thanks

ChuckFlies

and

Tight Lines!!

[netabrookie 0]

Hello 3FL2, Thats some interesting thoughts. I'm still learning a lot of this, and am so confused about some things. Someone suggests one thing while someone else suggest something completely different. In my 44 years on this spinning rock, I haven't mastered English, and now I'm attempting Latin. I have tied most of the "famous" patterns so far, but in my inexperienced opinion, some don't look like any fly that I have ever seen while on a trout stream while others hit on it fairly well. The only thing that has kept my sanity is a lot of reading and research about flies and bugs in my local area. I am trying to build my box with suggestions from other tyers and known patterns, but I am also tying alot of variations to try and match as close as possible. I check out a lot of books from a lot of local librarys and have liked bugs since I was a kid. I havent found anything online that is really any help to me. There might be general information on a particular species, but that dosn't exactly mean that they are in my immediate locality. I have even been told to "give it up" while trying to come up with something a little different, but that just makes me try harder, I don't care how experienced the person telling me is. I paint cars and motorcycles for a living, but if someone asked me about something paintwise they were experimenting on, I would encourage them instead of shooting them down in flames. Some of this is an exact science while the other is a whole lot of luck and guesswork. Oh well, I didn't mean to accidently switch to fully automatic and hit you with a full magazine.

 

Take Care,

[3FL2 0]

Tony,

Thats exactly the feed back I wanted. I feel your frustration...It's the fuel that feeds the fire, When someone tells me that "You can't do it because it was already done that's what makes me try harder. I know there are books on bugs,but they don't explain why we tie certain patterns to resemble these bugs, Is it because of the color or size? There is no book that explains this. I have determined I'm sure as you have that the patterns do not need to be exactly replicated as long as you match the color or size. There is no scientific proof that trout are smarter than other fish, but they put up a good argument some times with there stuborness and selectivity. It's true that trout are selective and you can watch trout for hours selecting certain flies, But if you look again you will see they might be actually eating the nymphs coming to the surface ...

Thanks tony again!

 

 

Any one else???

[flytyingscotsman 0]

 

IMHO .....

 

'Matching the Hatch' is easy relative to what you have to do to catch fish when

there is 'No Hatch to Match' (incidentally, this is the title of a pretty good book

by Rich Osthoff).

 

If there is a hatch on, you had probably better try to match it.

 

Sure, fish can be caught using attractors/lures during a hatch, but the hatch matchers will be

the guys making out best.

 

Nymph/emerger versus dun ? Since I started hanging a trailing nymph from my dun during

the sulphur hatch, I started getting many more strikes.

 

If you like to fish all year round, then you have to de-emphasize the match the hatch approach.

 

 

 

 

[duckydoty 0]

I have found one pattern that is guaranteed to work every time no matter where it is fished. I will share the name and color of the pattern but you will have to figure out where to get the materials and how to tie it yourself. It is the light grey primachord san juan worm. It has never failed to produce fish in any body of water where fish were present, no matter what the speicies.

Other than that, I trie to tie and fish flies that represent as many different food sources as possable. If you try and match the hatch you are restricting yourself to that one fish targeting that one specific food source.

I tend to get better numbers of fish if I throw something that not only resembles a sow bug or scud but might be and nymph or some sort also. Same with streamers, might be a sculpin or a crawdad.

duckydoty

[Old Hat 0]

3FL2, I went through the same process that you are going through about 5 years ago. I was always tying the newest patterns and my experimenting just became more and more complicated as I began to breakdown the different hatches and imitate them with more exacting patterns. Today, I operate on a big bug/little bug, dark bug/light bug system. Of course there are limited profiles and colors involved but this my description. The key I think is to enjoy fishing the flies you tie. The patterns need to fit your style. I don't fish heavy nymphs. Only because I don't enjoy it. I rarely tie and carry only a few dries. Same reason. I enjoy unweighted suggestive soft hackles. For me tying has become more about suggestion than matching. Finding the triggers as many say. I stick mainly with profile and color as options and have narrowed it down to a few simple patterns that I can easily change the color. I like the patterns that are simple to tie and suggestive of as many insects as possible. I even enjoy molding my patterns to fit other species than trout. I have flymphs for steelhead, spiders for panfish, buggers for bass etc. This lets me still enjoy the creative aspect of tying while spending more time on the water focusing on learning the best methods of presenting the patterns. I think every pattern has its preferred method of presentation. These can get very specific. Too many different patterns makes it too difficult for me to find the best honed in methods. My philosophy is the old adage (KISS) for tying and spend more time on presentation. I find beauty in a fly's simplicity and ability to suggest multiple hatches. I could go on and on how I got to this point but will spare all.

[JJD 0]

Your discussion has dozens of tangents that we could go off on, but it begs a few questions...

• Do you just want to be a more effective fish catcher? Throw out the bells and whistles and focus on effective patterns and techniques?
• Do you want to catch bigger fish?
• Or are you looking for patterns that work, but which are simply less time consuming - therefore more time-cost effective

I favor impressionistic and attractor patterns over highly realistic stuff - think Teeny Nymph and Royal Wulff My first run through an area is going to be to try to target any aggressive fish. After that, if things aren't successful, I'll change tactics. IIRC it is in the Carl Richards' book Prey, where he discusses certain forage densities and their effect on predator behavior. The book was primarily directed at saltwater fishing, but I believe that the discussion remains pertinent to trout and other coldwater species as well. Richards discusses three "bait conditions" and their effect on predators.

• 1. Absence (or low numbers) of prey species.
• 2. Modest amount of prey - predatory fish will key on specific species/close imitations. "Matching the hatch" is key to success.
• 3. Abundance of prey. In this condition, the author suggested attractor patterns that differentiate themselves from the large schools of prey.

I fished the Colorado River with a famous guide using a dry/dropper configuration (humpy over zebra midge). Fishing was incredible - but it suddenly went cold, right now - bang. He looked into the water and suggested a change in the dropper (from gold rib to silver rib on a sub-16 size nymph). The chnage was nearly invisible to the eye in the bright sun, but it immediately began producing. I guess what I learned from this is that there are no absolutes and it pays to have a little variety in your kit. In this case something specific was warranted.

 

On another occaision, fishing a high Sierra wilderness river, our group couldn't buy a bite from the small Kern R. Rainbows. On a fluke, after seeing what appeared to be a few big crane flies (probably big stoneflies - but I didn't look close enough), I changed to a huge #8 stimulator. Trout were throwing themselves at the fly by the dozens, even though the fly was almost 25% of the length of the small ones. In this case the key seemed to be size - since the color was not a perfect match.

 

Another consideration is the effect of catch & release on fish. I've read technical publications that indicate that Largemouth Bass (particularly Florida strain bass) will learn to ignore lures that they have been hooked on before. It isn't a reach to suggest that trout (at least wild varieties) may have a similar ability. This would suggest the need for at least a few "new" or "different" flies in your kit for when things get tough.

 

Regarding big fish, it is my firm opinion that you need to really put your time in. Due to population dynamics, there will always be fewer big fish than smaler ones. They don't grow large by needlessly exerting energy - it is all about energy conservation in pusuit of calories. The bait offering has to be big enough, and presented in in such a way to entice that big predator to come into the current and get it.

 

All that said...I'm basically an experimenter at heart. I have a decent idea of what will work in a given area but I often try something new and I don't get hung up on "catching". This approach is pretty relaxing and often results in a few surprises.

 

John

 

[JSzymczyk 0]

I have found one pattern that is guaranteed to work every time no matter where it is fished. I will share the name and color of the pattern but you will have to figure out where to get the materials and how to tie it yourself. It is the light grey primachord san juan worm. It has never failed to produce fish in any body of water where fish were present, no matter what the speicies.

 

 

OK, took me a minute, but now I get it~! :hyst: For the non-fly-fishermen, there are also DuPont Spinners. They work well.

[duckydoty 0]

I was wondering how long that would take

duckydoty

[Bob Cunningham 0]

Searching and attractor patterns for me. Work great in warmwater, and I'm not really sure if I am capable of matching the hatch. LOL

 

[Trichoptera 0]

So you're thinking that the goal of fly fishing is to catch fish? A very interesting concept which could be debated for hours.

[ILikeFish 0]

I have found one pattern that is guaranteed to work every time no matter where it is fished. I will share the name and color of the pattern but you will have to figure out where to get the materials and how to tie it yourself. It is the light grey primachord san juan worm. It has never failed to produce fish in any body of water where fish were present, no matter what the speicies.

 

 

OK, took me a minute, but now I get it~! :hyst: For the non-fly-fishermen, there are also DuPont Spinners. They work well.

 

 

i still dont get it :wallbash:

[djbvt 0]

MY quick contribution addresses your question about a hatch guide/book. I would recommend Thomas Ames "Hatch Guide to New England Streams". Tom does a great job of presenting solid information in both photographic and textural descriptions of both the naturals and a few artificial for each major species without (IMHO) getting to technical.

 

As far as keeping it simple, I carry one box the majority of the time. I have pared down the flys that seem to work in my area to 10 or 12 dries and 15 - 20 nymphs. As the season progresses, I switch out a few of the flies (i.e. pull the Hendricksons and add Cahills) to more closely approximate what I expect to see on the stream.

 

Now - in traveling (i.e. Catskills in June) I tend to blow the doors off and bring my entire bench!!!! 8 - 10 boxes are not uncommon

 

DJB

[purolohi kalastaja 0]

I have found one pattern that is guaranteed to work every time no matter where it is fished. I will share the name and color of the pattern but you will have to figure out where to get the materials and how to tie it yourself. It is the light grey primachord san juan worm. It has never failed to produce fish in any body of water where fish were present, no matter what the speicies.

 

 

OK, took me a minute, but now I get it~! :hyst: For the non-fly-fishermen, there are also DuPont Spinners. They work well.

 

 

i still dont get it :wallbash:

 

I think this particular fly would also need to be fished using a large, red, cylindrical weight quite near the fly, would it not?

 

 

 

 

For me, I love the challenge of tying the fly, then catching anything but fish on it - trees, rocks, other fisherman, my waders, etc.