Vise Advice (Hee, hee, hee!)

[seattlesetters 0]

OK...so here's my story...and I need your help. I'm just getting into fly tying and I went out and purchased a 2009 Griffin Montana Mongoose vise...and I don't like it. I'm going to return it and get my money back. Then, I'm buying a Renzetti Presentation 2000 or an HMH Standard (I also love the looks of the Dyna-King Voyager II, but I've seen enough complaints here about D-Ks and small hooks to eliminate them from contention. While I realize some people love D-K vises and have no issue with small hooks, I'm just trying to make it as easy as possible on myself. Plus, my budget is $280, no more, and the Voyager II plus a set of Midge jaws doesn't quite make that limit.).

 

My question is, which vise? My research indicates both models are terrific for smaller flies "right out of the box" and each should last a lifetime. My budget allows for either, but if the true rotary vise does more, why should I get the HMH?

 

I will only tie trout flies and 90% of those will be size 12-18. I know this is true because trout are all I fish for (for 32 years!), and I use size 12-18 flies 90% of the time. The other 10% will be split between size 8-10 and 20-22. I fish bamboo rods and simply don't use anything bigger than a #8, and that only occurs during October Caddis time. The 20s and 22s will be nearly as rare as old eyes, feeble skill and physical limitations (I've lost a bit of feeling in my right thumb and forefinger due to a neck injury) stop me at these limits.

 

The only flies I will tie are simple dries such as Sparkle Duns and X-Caddis, and soft hackles. I don't fish with nymphs or streamers so there will be no need to tie them, and more difficult dries will probably be beyond my limitations (if not, great!). I also apologize for starting a new thread, but all the old "rotary vs. traditional" threads I've found end up being advertisements for everyone's favorite manufacturer or about which vise holds a 10/0 hook. I have no need for holding large hooks, and I'd really like to know if rotary techniques will help me with the flies I plan to tie.

 

Does the P2000 afford me anything over the Standard? Will it be easier to tie my simple dries and soft hackles with a true rotary vise, or with a traditional style? Is it easier to place materials ("the pinch") over a traditional vise using its stem as a rest, or over the offset of the Renzetti?

 

Remember, no saltwater flies, no bass flies, no streamers, no pike flies, no tube flies, no nymphs and no bugs larger than size 8 or smaller than size 22. I appreciate any help you folks can give, and all replies will be greatly appreciated!

[R.Morring 0]

Seattlesetters,

Sounds like your in the same boat that i'm in right now. I have used the Renzetti Traveler and the Saltwater Traveler. Both are great vises. I was tying bass flies and clouser minnows and didn't have the clearance to work on the bottom of the hook with the standard arm so I got the clouser arm. While this gave great access to the bottom of the hook, I was constantly retightening the jaws. So I have a Dyna-king FC Enhanced vise now. It's built like a tank, holds the hook with now slippage what so ever. Now that i've started trout fishing i'm tying the small stuff in the sizes you mentioned. Most of those flys wouldn't be tied in rotary, and the angle adjustment you can get with the voyager II or the HMH is not possible with the Presentation 2000. I haven't seen the midge jaws in use on any of the Dyna-Kings, but the midge jaws for the HMH has the most access to the hook that I have seen. I'm looking at the DK Supreme and the HMH Standard, and the deciding factor may come down to the HMH midge jaws. I do know you can order directly from DK and get the midge jaws instead of the standard jaws with the vise of choice at no extra charge. If your like me it will be decisions,decisions,decisions.............. :wallbash: :wallbash: :wallbash:

 

Randy

[WYKnot 0]

After a few months with a rotary, you may wonder how you ever tied without it. Even if you never actually tie ‘rotary style', the ability to rotate a pattern to get a better angle for attaching materials and checking different angles will become part of your tying routine.

 

I have not used a Renzetti Presentation, so cannot comment. I use either a Traveler or an HMH Spartan in my travel kit, depending upon any sort of whim when I am packing. Both serve just fine on the road and I, too, tie mostly on hooks in the 10-26 range. Your hand placement and tying techniques may change slightly, but you should not have any trouble getting a solid perch on either type of vise (fixed or rotary). Find a fly shop and try out a few models before your buy; saves the hassle of returns.

 

Beg, borrow, or buy a copy of Al & Gretchen Beatty’s book ‘Rotary Fly Tying Techniques’ to shave some time off the learning curve.

 

For what it’s worth, my bench vise for the past 11 years has been a Dyna-King Barracuda. I realize you are not interested in any Dyna-King products, just did not want some newbie to view your post and take it entirely to heart.

[seattlesetters 0]

Thanks, Randy. That's an interesting tidbit about the D-K being available with midge jaws at no extra cost. That just put that sexy little Voyager II back on the list.

[R.Morring 0]

Another option is get the HMH Sparton and the midge jaws and still come in under your price range. Also I found a couple of web sites that have the HMH Standard in the 240+ price range.

[seattlesetters 0]

Another option is get the HMH Sparton and the midge jaws and still come in under your price range........

I've thought about that, but I don't think I'll need the midge jaws with an HMH. It would just be the additional savings and more compact size of the Spartan to compare to the Standard, and since I'm mentally prepared to spend $280 on a vise, it comes down to full-size vs. compact. From my hands-on research, I think the slightly larger stem works better for me and is the easiest for me to place materials on. And while the Renzetti isn't as easy now, I'm sure that with a bit of instruction and experience it could eventually become just as user-friendly as the Standard.

 

[seattlesetters 0]

Thanks, Russ! A couple of follow-ups for you, if you would be so kind:

 

Can one use the rotation on the Standard (or Voyager II) for getting a better angle for attaching materials?

 

Also, with the knowledge Randy provided about D-K vises being available with the midge jaws at no extra charge, the Voyager II and Trekker would now both be of interest. Any experience with those?

[R.Morring 0]

If you decide to go with a DK, got to flytiers.com. They have the cheapest prices on DK's that i've found. You can get a Trekker with standard jaws and get the midge jaws for $255. Or get the Voyager with both jaws for $283. With my experience with my DK, I would say you would be very happy with either DK that you are wanting. With the Voyager you can rotate and tie just like the Trekker. It won't be a true rotary vise in that the centerline of the hook will be offset from centerline. I have not had a problem with this on my DK FC Enhanced. But to each his own. Some don't like the offset and some it doesn't bother them. You can go to HMH's website and see what it would look like tying with the vise set up horizontally and rotating. They have a video section showing how to use their vises.

 

 

[92Esquire 0]

I've got three vises, the PEAK, the Barracuda Indexer, and the HMH Spartan. I've tied for two years on the PEAK, with at least 50 % of my tying being size 16 and smaller. I've tied a few dozen flies so far on the 'cuda, and only got the HMH yesterday.

 

I've got the midge jaws for the 'cuda and the PEAK. Of the two, I give a slight edge to the PEAK, but only due to the nature of a couple of small patterns I tie on scud hooks (16 - 22's) that the PEAK gives better access to the tip of the bend on. But the 'Cuda with midge jaws is just fine for that. In fact I could tie them on the standard jaws just fine as well. I do think that the best of the bunch would probably be the HMH midge jaws, but I don't have those yet.

 

There's nothing about the HMH that would keep you from tying any pattern you wanted to. However, I have developed the habit of rotating the fly 45 degrees towards me when tying in parachutes, eyes, wing cases, etc to make sure that the material is centered on top of the hook. The HMH does not allow you to do that very well unless you commit to a horizontal vise angle, which robs you of space behind the hook.

 

I really think that you will quickly become accustomed to whatever you buy, and it will serve you well. I would not shy away from Dyna-Kings and small hooks (plus you can get the V II and a spare set of midge jaws, and still come in under your budget). In that price category, I really don't think there is an incorrect choice. You either try before you buy, or buy one and see if it feels right.

 

One final thought I had while reading your post is that you may be the ideal candidate for the Regal with stainless jaws. Finer pointed, with plenty of space on either side of your hook range to accommodate your tying (something that the DK or HMH midge jaws may not allow). Plus the stainless jaws don't appear to have the chipping issues that the older steel jaws occasionally had with smaller hooks. Just a thought. I think of the Regal as the "bamboo" of the vise world. It always seems to me that the same guys who have been tying on Regals for a billion years also fish bamboo.

[maddog48 0]

I have the Voyager2, Trekker and a King-Fisher. To me you can't beat Dyna-King. I know there are other folks who say the same thing about HMH, Renzetti, Peak and on and on. Did you know the "standard" jaw on a DK vise holds from 8/0 down to size 22? This is from the DK website:

 

 

The midge jaw is available for all Dyna-King vises and are used for tying those tiny flies. The midge jaw is not grooved like the standard jaw, but rather comes to a fine point and are flat to accommodate the tiniest hooks, 32 up to 8 comfortably. The standard jaw is the jaw that automatically comes with a vise at time of purchase unless midge jaw is specified at time of purchase as a special order. The standard jaw is also pictured here with grooves and serrations to accomodate hook sizes 22 to 8/O.

 

 

Mike

 

[WYKnot 0]

Thanks, Russ! A couple of follow-ups for you, if you would be so kind:

Also, with the knowledge Randy provided about D-K vises being available with the midge jaws at no extra charge, the Voyager II and Trekker would now both be of interest. Any experience with those?

No real experience, just from trying them out at shows and the local fly shop. I preferred the Trekker over the Voyager II, but cannot give your three good reasons why.

 

I have the midge jaws for the Barracuda, usually do not put them on until time to tie 22-26. I plan Tricos and olives for a couple of weeks each winter, find some patience, and have at the small stuff.

[R.Morring 0]

Hey Seattlesetter,

 

If your still concidering the HMH Standard, I found a website that has them for $248. And they 10% off all orders till Dec. 31. Use code: save10 at checkout. They dont show any accessory jaws though, but with the savings you can get the micro jaws somewhere else.

 

www.flytyingspecialties.com

 

Randy

[WYKnot 0]

So.....SS, which vise is going to grace your tying bench?

[R.Morring 0]

Another update. I e-mailed fly tying specialties to ask if they had the micro jaws. Got a reply that they would be in this Friday @ $39.95. So I replyed if I order before the 31st. would I still get the 10% discount on the jaws also. Got a reply that they will apply discount to the complete order. With shipping that comes in at about $275. Will have do a phone order though,but you can't beat that with a stick ! Now i'm giving very serious thought to getting one instead of the DK Supreme. :dunno:

[seattlesetters 0]

So.....SS, which vise is going to grace your tying bench?

Russ - I'm leaning rather heavily at the moment toward an HMH Standard. I'm still trying to confirm, but I don't think I'd need the midge jaws.

 

I'm also considering the features, advantages and benefits of the Standard vs. the Spartan, but since this will be my bench vise, I am fairly certain I'll end up choosing the Standard.