Historical questions

[fuzzy 0]

I have a couple questions I hope you guys can help me with.

 

First does anyone have a picture of a Frankee-Belle fly in the original point down configuration? I have one but it is so small I can't see any detail.

 

Next, what did the original McVay's Gotcha look like? The story is that it was made of yarn clipped from the carpet of a taxi. What was the color of the yarn? Was it used for the wing the body or both?

 

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

Rick in NC

[Kirk Dietrich 0]

Fuzzy, I'm not sure about those two but I do know that The Crazie Charlie was first tied by Bob Nauheim in 1977, I think the Gotcha was either a little before or a little after that.

 

That is what gets me about everyone calling flies weighted with bead chain or lead barbell eyes a Clouser. Bob's Clouser Minnow is a pattern, not a style of tying. The style was developed in the era which you are searching - the days of the old Bonefish and Steelhead patterns.

 

Oh well, that is about as good as my history goes. I hope someone with more historical knowledge chimes in.

 

Good Luck,

Kirk

 

[fuzzy 0]

Kirk,

 

I appreciate your reply, I found some of the information I was looking for in Dick Browns 2008 book which I have ordered and am expecting to arrive in the next couple of days.

 

I am looking at the evolution of the bonefish flies as we know them today and it is really hard to establish what a new pattern looked like in its original dressing and configuration.

 

Thanks again

[Peterjay 0]

According to Lefty's original pattern book, the Frankee-Belle was the first bonefish fly to feature grizzly tips on the wing. The Dick Stewart/Farrow Allen book describes the original as having a brown wing and a white body. The fly was developed long before there was any printed material on SW patterns - correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the books I mentioned were the first to deal exclusively with SW patterns. (1992 or so) Tough to find anything on original patterns that came from an earlier era. Even the originators may have fooled around with different versions. I know I'm always tinkering with my own stuff; I doubt the SW pioneers were much different in that respect.

[fuzzy 0]

Peterjay

Thanks for your reply.

 

I now have Lefty's "Saltwater Fly Patterns" book it has the Frankee-Belle pattern in it but it shows the fly in a point up configuration, and it was my understanding that the Frankee-Belle was used prior to the advent of the point up attitude flies(first point up fly was the Horror). Also it seems every source I find, the Frankee-Belle colors schemes are different. Anyway, I have 4 more books on the way which has ,at least some, of the historical info.

 

I still have been unsuccessful in finding much of anything about the original Gotcha or when is was fist tied.

 

What I do know is: it was first tied by Jim McVay, some sources gives credit to Jim's son Ted, using fibers clipped from the carpet of an Andros Island cab and I assume the overall configuration of the is the same as the patterns we see today.

 

What I still don't know is: 1.materials used (carpet fibers= wing or body?) 2. colors of the materials, 3. when it was first tied, 4. size and 5. confirmation of the original configuration.

 

Fuzzy

[Peterjay 0]

Yeah, they were all tied point down back then. The only guy I remember writing extensively on the subject back in the late 50's - 60's was Joe Brooks. He was a regular contributor to Outdoor life, but I don't think he had a book out. (I could be wrong about that) There just wasn't the interest in SW fly fishing to justify magazine or even book editors giving the subject much space. I have an idea what you're up against - I've been making saltwater tins based on vintage designs from the 1940's - 1950's, and information is virtually nonexistent. Nobody bothered photographing or collecting that old stuff, and most of the originals have long since been lost to rocks, etc. You can find a lot of plugs, but forget about flies and tins. Outside of striking gold at a yard sale or an estate sale, there's really no place else to look.

[JJD 0]

I know it's been updated several times, but check your library for one of the original versions of Lefty's Saltwater Pattern Book. IIRC it had some photographs of old verions of the patterns you're talking about, before they were updated with more flash & synthetics.

 

I've also seen a reference to J. Edson Leonard's book FLIES published in 1950, that has examples of saltwater flies, but I've never seen a copy of it.

[fuzzy 0]

JJD,

 

Thanks for your reply. I have 2 editions of Lefty's "Saltwater Fly Patterns" book, both have the same example of the Frankee-Belle fly I have 3 more books ordered maybe one of them will provide more insight to what originally looked like.

 

I still have no additional info regarding the McVay's Gotcha fly, the questions I still have about the "original" Gotcha are:

 

When was it first tied?

 

materials ( the sources I have seen, saw it was made from yellow fibers from the carpet of an Andros taxi) but I don't know if those fibers were used for wing, body, or both

 

Colors

 

Size

 

 

[easterngray 0]

Just flip the hook. It's a real simple fly. Here's a bunch I tied for a fellow that likes to fish classic patterns. Alec

 

[chugger 0]

McVays Gotcha is shown in Dick Brown's 1996 book, "Bonefish Fly Patterns".

 

The fly shown was tied by McVay so is the real deal.

Hook= 34007 / 2 & 4

The wing color is listed as blond craft fur ( a sorta tan-ish yellow) / yellow crystal flash on top

eyes = 1/8" bead chain for #4 / 5/32" for#2/ silver

Tail = pearl mylar tubing frayed out

Body = pearl diamond braid wrapped

 

I do not see an inception date -- but it was relatively new at this point (I think) --Probably early 90's

 

BTW: I have a few flies in the book -- see Will Myers if you have a copy

[ditz2 0]

I have a book by Kenneth Bay copywrited 1972 on SW patterns. It has the Frankie Belle tied exactly as Easterngrey has his tied. 2 layers of white chenele, light brown bucktail, and the grisley hackle 3/4 as long as the bucktail. All on a 1/0 hook.

[Capt Bob LeMay 0]

Those very early bonefish bugs were usually on much larger hooks than we would use today. In those days just after WWII it was common for anglers to take numbers of fish in a day (and unfortunately kill them all). One of my early mentors was Harry Friedman who was a contemporary of Joe Brooks and could be seen in many of the photos from that period. He was an old guy when I knew him briefly before he passed away. His proudest achievement was a 72lb tarpon on 12lb tippet. Doesn't sound like much until you learn that they didn't think a "shock tippet" was sporting or proper so that fish was actually taken on 12lb...

 

By the way, I've filled many an order for bonefish flies and watched fly shops come and go since the mid seventies. In all that time I've never had a single request for that old Frankee Belle.