Dry fly hackle

[T_Bone 0]

Over the past year I have spent copious amounts of cash on hackle, one even says "dry fly hackle" on the package, and I have not been impressed. They were Metz and Keough. It doesn't seem right and almost never looks right. I bought a few specific pattern kits at LL Bean last fall (Spirit River) on clearance, and there was a grizzly and brown hackle in them for a stimulator and those were great! My only complaint with the pack was that the hackle was one size and the hooks were like size 12-16.

 

 

So Is Whiting the answer? Or is it possible I am doing something wrong? Am I spinning the hackle the wrong way maybe? It seems like the quill gets kinked and the feather is too sparse when wrapped.

 

Thanks again,

T~

[BattenkillBum 0]

if the stems on your dry fly hackle are to thick, ( metz is famous for this ) it will not wind on the hook shank correctly. Also if you are winding over previous wraps it will not lay correctly. I find hoffman and hebert capes to be the best quality as far as barb count and stem thickness. I think the Whiting 100 packs are the best value for your money.

Using a rotating hackle plier or pliers may help in eliminating the twist you are experiencing while winding hackle.

[T_Bone 0]

if the stems on your dry fly hackle are to thick, ( metz is famous for this ) it will not wind on the hook shank correctly. Also if you are winding over previous wraps it will not lay correctly. I find hoffman and hebert capes to be the best quality as far as barb count and stem thickness. I think the Whiting 100 packs are the best value for your money.

Using a rotating hackle plier or pliers may help in eliminating the twist you are experiencing while winding hackle.

 

I think that would best explain my findings. The stem thickness is not good. I will take your advice and try the hackle pliers. I have them but they seldom see use, unless I am working with a short strand of material.

 

Thanks!

[Piker20 0]

Pics are useful for these Q but are you using a hackle guide to measure against your hook?

You want to be tying in the feather at the point the flues are equal lengths. On a better cape more of the feathers give you a better level length, but you still need to be choosy. Its a natural product afterall.

Are you wrapping with the thread turns and not against them.

are you tying in and using your hackle plier to remove twist as you wind round, hackles like to twist.

Wind in close touching winds to achieve the thickness. Or some patterns need 2hackles wrapped together. If your hackle is too short to wind the hook length you want then you need a longer feather and better capes will have more of these while keeping the flue length equal for more of the length. Whiting are good capes.

[rockworm 0]

Like all other aspects of this art (or craft), wrapping a feather collar is a skill you must learn through practice and observation. The feathers from most modern genetic capes are easier to use than, say, Indian capes. But excellent flies can be tyed using either. Anyone can tye a fly. But it takes skill to tye a great fly. You simply need to learn to master your materials.

 

As for specific tips, I have only a couple to add to what has already been said:

 

1) Use thread wraps to create a smooth, level foundation for your collar. (A bumpy or sloping base makes for a messy hackle..)

2) Use only the good part of the feather. Now, that is amost all of the feather if you are using a genetic saddle and most of the feather if its from a genetic neck. But even a high-priced skin can have a few feathers with thick or twisted stems near the base of the feather. I have some beautifully-patterned/coloured Indian capes the feathers of which I can use only the top half.

[T_Bone 0]

Whoops I posted twice! That's what I get for leaving the computer mid post.

 

Thanks for the great responses! I'll try perfecting my technique and see how it goes.

[Hellgrammite 0]

I have had very, very good luck overall with Keough; the Tyer's grade necks are usually wonderful, with plenty of feathers down to size 20/22. I have one ginger neck whos stems are weak, but that wraps wonderfully, and every other neck I own is well worth the 20 or so dollars I paid for them. Whiting's 100s packs are good, I bought one in Grizzly for size 12s, and the feathers are a delight to use. Ive never used Metz, so I cant say. But...

 

When I wrap a hackle, I do a few things. I first ensure that I have a good base for the hackle, and usually when tying a winged dry, everything is fine behind the wings. In front, make sure to have a small thread base, as bare hook shanks are 1) very slippery and 2) very tiny. Hackles wont like that.

 

When I wind a hackle, I have the tip pointing left, with the dull or concave side of the feather facing me. I strip perhaps 1/8 of an inch of the stem, secure it with 2 or 3 good wraps both behind and ahead of the wing, and then make a quick half hitch and let my bobbin hang perhaps 1/8 inch ahead of my wing, but a bit away from the eye. I wind the hackle by hand, the same direction as I wind my thread, and I overlap my 1st couple of turns, which helps to "lock it in place", for lack of a better explanation. I take 4 or so wraps behind the wing, and 2 or 3 ahead of the wing. That's it. I dont want a fly that looks like an overgrown piece of chenille, I want a fly that has a hackle collar on it. I then hold the hackle feather in my left hand, straight up, while I wrap it down, 2 or 3 turns, TIGHT, with my bobbin. Snip or snap off the tip.

 

Now, a trick here, is that I will usually have a few unruly hackle fibers poking out. I grab my half hitch tool, otherwise known as my bodkin, and make a half hitch, but I use the tip of the tool to slide over the hook and press those fibers back and hitch them down, so theyre not poking out over my eye. I then whip finish, which is made easier by the use of a small piece of coffee stirrer straw that is always slid over the stem of my bobbin. I slide that up the thread and press the hackle out of my way, and make a 3 or 4 turn whip finish. Cut my thread, maybe a drop of cement (i dont always use it) and on to the flybox it goes.

 

When wrapping your hackle, locking it in, and getting your hackle wraps 1) over a good base and 2) Tight up against one another, as well as tying them in tight, is the key to a nice looking, durable hackle. Dont be afraid to fix a size 12 or so in your vise and just practice wrapping and tying in hackles a few times, especially if you have a neck you dont care for. I probably tied 200 or so traditional dries before I started being routinely pleased with their appearance.

 

Hope this rambling helps,

 

Amanda

[Hellgrammite 0]

Sigh. Wrote this out once, and Xed the window by accident...

 

Ok. Here's a couple pictures of a keough hackle (any sort should look about the same). That dark area along the stem that gets thinner toward the tip is webby soft stuff. We want to minimize that for dry flies. I dont cut it all off, but I want it very thin, say nore more than 1/4 of my barb length, at the point I start using it. I have marked where I would cut.

 

 

And here it is cut, and prepped to use. I will tie it in exactly as it appears in this photo; tip to my left, concave side facing me. I have stripped just a bit of the tip, a bit less than 1/8 inch. It only takes a couple of good, firm wraps to grip well. Dont overwrap!

 

 

The last pic is a rough idea of what I mean about wing placement. I have my wrap starting maybe 1/8 or so of an inch behind my wing, and will be able to lay 4 or even 5 hackle wraps in that space. I will overlap the first one, to help lock the hackle down. I will then wrap forward of the wing, to where my bobbin is. Over the tip of my bobbin (dosent show, ack! I meant to show it) is a tiny piece of red plastic coffee stirrer straw. After wrapping my hackle, it is PERFECT for use as a hackle guard, so I can neatly finish the fly without fighting stray hackle fibers.

 

 

Hopefully this helps. If not, hopefully it helps someone!

 

Amanda

[T_Bone 0]

Amanda,

 

That is a great help! You have just explained and shown me a lot that I can take to the vise and hopefully figure out if the hackle I have is worth anything.

 

I have never paid all that much attention to which side of the hackle is facing me and which way I wrapped it. So for the record the feather's underside facing me, and the feather is wrapped clockwise from the front of the fly? I think with this information I may be able salvage the materials I have and make something great!

 

Thank you so much!

 

T~

[Hellgrammite 0]

Ok. Pictures showing the actual hackling of a fly.

 

1) I have my fly winged, a tail, and body dubbed. Kind of a March Brown I am tying here, I guess... anyway. Pic 1 shows what things look like for me before I add the hackle. Notice the slight space between the wing and dubbed body, and a small area of thread base in front of the wing. That's where the hackle lays.

 

 

Next, we tie our hackle in. Tied in tip left, concave side toward me (this is the hackle from my pics above) and a BIT of bare stem between my tie in point and the feather, maybe a 16th of an inch. This will help prevent the first few fibers from pointing straight back when I begin wrapping. Notice my thread has been moved before the eye, before the thread base, and half hitched there. That is where I will wrap in, and i will wrap the hackle down with turns that lay from that point back. I do not want to go forward of that point on a proper catskill dry! (which I dont always manage, heh)

 

 

Hackle wrapped, nice and tight, and tied down. You can see how I have a few stray fibers I wrapped under, peeking out over my eye? We'll take care of those in a minute. I secured my hackle with 3 wraps.

 

 

Now, I did my half hitch, with my bodkin as a tool, to push those fibers I wrapped under back, and hold them back with the half hitch. I then slid my bit of coffee stirrer up my thread and pushed all the hackle and wings out of the way, so I could tie a nice whip finish.

 

 

And here is the finished fly! Sorry about the pic quality, I'm working on it! My camera has no macro setting, no focus adjustment, and dosent focus on ANYTHING closer than about 2 feet =/ Wow those pics are bad... just look at the small thumbnails, dont make them larger. They just get worse!

 

 

Have fun.

[Hellgrammite 0]

Amanda,

 

That is a great help! You have just explained and shown me a lot that I can take to the vise and hopefully figure out if the hackle I have is worth anything.

 

I have never paid all that much attention to which side of the hackle is facing me and which way I wrapped it. So for the record the feather's underside facing me, and the feather is wrapped clockwise from the front of the fly? I think with this information I may be able salvage the materials I have and make something great!

 

Thank you so much!

 

T~

 

Wrap from back to front, spiralling around the hook, in the same direction you wind the thread, laying the wraps nice and close to each other. Hopefully the next set of pictures helps!

[T_Bone 0]

Amanda,

 

Fantastic! I really could not have asked for so much help, least of expected it. Your photo's high quality or not are soooo helpful!!! It illustrates everything you are telling me excellently!

 

T~

[Hellgrammite 0]

Glad to help!

[SBPatt 0]

 

 

Hopefully this helps. If not, hopefully it helps someone!

 

Amanda

 

 

That is very clever; nicely done.

 

Regards,

Scott

 

ps - Just about all of the genetic hackle you get nowdays is soooooo much better than the stuff I started with back in the late 80's. Even so, I can't say I'm a huge fan of Metz capes (and I have a number of them) and their saddles (not the Micro-barb; no experience with them) were pretty much wet fly/streamer quality, or for foam flies that didn't need need the hackle to help them float; capes had thicker stems that didn't wind as well as others. Whiting/Hebert and Charlie Collins are what I use mostly now; think I have a few Spencers and Keoughs that are okay, too.

[T_Bone 0]

Well I know these are still far from perfect but here are some attempts I have made since this post. I know they are not sized appropriately, and the first one's hackle doesn't come far enough to the head, but I was impressed with the turn out from our discussion here.

 

The first uses mallard quill wings, which I have never done before, only read about, and is a size 12. The second is similar to an Adams fly in size 18.

 

What do you all think? Again I realize there is some work ahead to perfect my technique. And thank you for all the help so far everyone!