dafack01

It's just a bathtub test, so the results may be a bit different once fished, but the Zoo Cougar just has a more erratic action than the Madonna in the tub (still not sluggo erratic, but in the same vein). I still plan on using some madonnas, though I'm thinking that a weighted one may be better for wading. I'm gonna play around with conehead and dumbbell eye versions. The twin-tail looks like a killer crawfish pattern. Actually, I've found zoo cougars to be pretty easy to tie. No harder than a Madonna. I just tied the mallard flank feather directly on top of the bucktail (with a dab of flexament before tying in the bucktail), and the feather stays put when you put a little pressure on it and tie it on tight. I have about 1/2"-3/4" of marabou tied in out back, so I hope that's not enough to have a problem with short-strikes.

Maybe it was Bob Linsenman's "high and mighty" sound when talking about new fly designs, but I've always dismissed the Zoo Cougar simply as a muddler minnow with a mallard flank wing. What's so innovative about that? Kind-of a knee-jerk reaction. Recently, however, I've been on this kick to try to find a streamer that moves and wiggles with an action reminicent of a Sluggo. It's impossible to replicate the exact motion of a Sluggo with anything you can practically fish on a fly rod, but I wanted something as close as I can get. I first thought of muddlers. I tied up some twin-tail Madonnas (conehead and regular versions) and some Woolly Sculpins, but they didn't satisfy me. When not in motion, the hook bend just nose dives, and didn't look what I was looking for. Then I remembered that I had a #4 Zoo Cougar that I bought at Bass Pro Shops. PERFECT. Exactly what I was looking for. The Madonna and Woolly Sculpin both have good action of their own, but they didn't dip and swoon like the Cougar. I guess the Flank feather and bucktail underwing makes that much of a difference. In addition, the fly seems to ride more horizontally when sat still (as opposed to the Madonna sitting vertically). I didn't have kiptail, so I substituted Bucktail and used natural colored deer hair and mallard flank feathers with a white marabou tail. After a bathtub test, I was thoroughly satisfied. I'll be giving these a whirl next time I go fishing. I have a feeling that Bass and Trout will love this thing. I just thought I'd pass this on. I'll be trying some in the natural/white shades as well as yellow. Where I go, I have a hard time thinking they'll mistake it for a Sculpin since I'll be fishing this thing one foot down in 8-10' of water. After all, Sculpins are bottom dwellers. That's why I'm trying it in white. More of a shad color.

This Articulated fly thing has my mind really churnin'. I tried an articulated Sheep Shad once and didn't like the results at all. The fly looked too much like 2 flies instead of one. The 2 hook idea could very well work for that fly (though it wouldn't be "Whitlock's Sheep Shad" anymore), but the rear hook would have to be a stinger only for the fly to look right. I'm thinking flies using Marabou and rabbit fur would be best. The idea I have in my head is an articulated 3" Double Bunny, maybe even a muddler version to have a kind-of sluggo thing goin' on. What are some of you all's favorite materials for articulated flies? OH, I'll be throwing these on a 6wt too.

Aah, I see said the blind man! That clears things up nicely! Thanks for the step-by-step! I saw the way I mentioned in my first post on some salmon site on a yahoo search (except they used a single strand of wire). I'll tie some up both ways and do a little "field testing" next time I hit up Cumberland. In fact, I'll probably go fish for some Smallies before I go trout fishing. I might try 'em out on them. But I never have much trouble with bass short striking, so I'm not sure if I'll even hook 'em on the rear hook to try it out. Your idea looks much better suited to Articulated Flies than the one I conjured up. I'll have to play around with some rabbit strips and that setup soon.

In case you haven't started tying yet, for the rear hook, are you using a hook with a down-turned eye, inserting the loop in the eye, and then lashing the loop to the shank of the rear hook?

But if you put them on top of the hook, won't the rear hook ride sideways? I guess I'm still not quite understanding this. It would seem to me to get the rear hook to ride right you'd need to lash one tag end to the top and one tag end to the bottom of the hook shank. But with the hook bend of the front hook, you can't lash it to the bottom. You'd have to lash it to the side, which would twist the rear hook instead of having it ride vertically.

Let me try to explain what I'm taking this. You lash one end of the mono to the top of the main/fly pattern hook (depending). Then put the other end through the eye of the rear hook and lay it back down over the shank of the main/fly pattern hook. Lash it down, fold the excess over after forming a "bump" with the thread and lash the excess down. Am I understanding this right SD? If so, where on the hook do you lash the tag ends down? I tried something similar to this and the tag ends ended up on one side of the main pattern hook, making the fly ride kinda sideways. How do you orient the tag ends of the loop?

I just tie. It's a nice way to distract myself from what's going on in the day/my life. It's a great artistic/creative outlet that lets me stay connected to fishing when I can't actually go fishing. Some tunes normally accompany my tying. Some common music for me is Pat Green (old school stuff from his Texas days, not the new Nashville stuff), Cory Morrow, Gary Allan, Dwight Yoakam, Dierks Bentley, King George the Strait, Merle Haggard, U2, and Led Zeppelin. Country music of some sort seems to be my favorite, though, for relaxing me and getting me in "the mood".

Let's try not to turn this into a moral argument about the "atrocities" of stinger hooks please. If the fish are consistently getting hooked deep, it's as simple as cutting off the stinger. Problem solved. However, Trout are notorious short-strikers. It's pretty much a necessity to have a hook at the rear of the pattern to have a decent strike-hookup ratio. Flies under 2" long aren't much of a problem. However, once you stretch that to 3" and up, short strikes are a much bigger problem. So, I'm wondering a good stinger hook setup for my streamers. Here are the requirements: Strength: It's gotta be able to withstand a viscious assault from a 20"+ Trout, as well as the surprise striper (after talking to a few other anglers that fish farther downstream, big -read 30-40 pound- striper will hit 3"-4" baitfish patterns occasionally; it's gotta withstand that). Durability: It's gotta be able to withstand viscious assault after viscious assault by 20"+ Trout, as well as the abovementioned surprise striper. Abrasion resistance: Trout teeth have to be a nonissue It also can't ruin the action of the pattern. I've tried a #8 treble hook, but that's too much weight. So I'm going to give a #4 sparkleminnow the bathtub test tonight with a #6 really short-shanked streamer hook as the stinger. Here's what I'm going to try: I just form a loop with a piece of 30 pound abrasion-resistant Mono. Lash the loop end REALLY good to the non-bend side of the stinger hook. Apply Zap-a-Gap. Orient the tag ends on the top of the fly-pattern hook so that the stinger hook rides point up (as opposed to the pattern hook riding point down). Lash the tag ends to the pattern hook REALLY good and apply some Zap-a-gap. Tie fly from there. I tied looping the mono through the eye and around the hook and I tried nail-knotting the mono to the hook. They all caused the hook to ride at too severe of an angle up or down, and/or left/right. I'm thinking that with this method, I can get the hook to ride right without affecting how the pattern fishes. How does that sound? How do you do your stinger hooks? Do you think this method will produce the desired results?

Nice fish! Way to go on the catch! That's a heck of a way to break in the fly-tying career! And that bugger looks great too!

How big are the gills you're catchin :bugeyes: I've caught several pumpkinseeds on a 3" tube and #2 hooks when bass fishing in streams before. The tube just BARELY fit in their mouths. I don't even know how they even got it in there.

I did a bathtub test with one of the Madonnas with a lead-wrapped shank, and I didn't like at all how the fly performed. All the lead-wrapped shank did was cause the hook bend to take a nose dive every time I stopped pulling. Therefore, those flies are now in the garbage. Instead, I'm tying up some sorta "thing". It's similar to a Meat Whistle, I guess. Big and buggy lookin'. I tied in an olive marabou tail, dumbbell eyes, and a normal rabbit strip palmered around the shank. It looks like a giant hairball when dry since I didn't use the cross-cut strips. When sat motionless on the bottom, the hair sticks out and waves with the current. Big and threatening. When stripped or swung in the current, the fly slims down to look like a sculpin or a fleeing crawfish. The rabbit fur just pulsates when stripped. It's a KILLER looking fly. Smalliehunter suggested somewhere to use the regular strips, and after looking at this thing, I agree. Even though the cross-cut strips look good when dry, they would simply kill the action of this fly. I tried it out on some Largemouth in a stream on my Aunt's property. They loved it. Bottom line, reserve judgement until you see the thing in motion in the water. When dry, the hair kinda sticks straight out and doesn't look like anything. I found the marabou tail to be easier to work with when fishing than a rabbit strip tail. Less fouling. It's tied on a #4 4xl hook and is about 3" long.

I'll second what maddog said. My take is this: If it's buggy looking (and that does look buggy), the fish will eat it. They may not think it's a scud, but as long as you're catching fish what does it matter?

you ever heard graphite shatter... :crying: Sure would be fun to give it a shot though...kind of like banging out 8lb largemouth on a 2lb test ultra-light Ugly Stik setup :headbang: Actually, the IGFA line-class record for 6lb test (or fly rod record with 6lb tippet, I'm not sure of the exact classification) was caught by a fly-only fisherman who's best known for chucking streamers and these giant mostrosity stonefly nymphs at the Cumberland (Gerald McDaniels for anyone who's curious). With 6lb tippet, I'm assuming he was trout fishing. It weighed in at a little over 45 pounds. Talk about taking a knife to a gunfight. I actually read an article by Gerald McDaniels once. He was saying how each year he makes a trip to the Yellowstone River in Montana. According to him, the a 16" Trout in Cumberland River "will put a 16" Trout out of the Yellowstone to Shame". Interesting.

I've got to tie up something similar to that the next time I go down to Cumberland. I'd love to bust out the 8wt and chuck some 6" streamers for some big Browns or reasonably sized Striper. I don't know if I'd trust an 8wt on a 40 pound Striper in that river.

Grab a slingshot and some rocks or sinkers. That oughtta teach 'em.

Abbra, I've been meaning to get some cross-cut rabbit strips to make me a jig 'n pig kinda thing. That may have just put me over the top. I'm planning on heading over to the fly shop after class to get me some materials. I'm going to try a twil-tail Madonna with chartreuse wings and a black head. I may try adding a rattle too. And Dragonfly nymphs huh? I might have to try that. So it's pretty much the same with fly gear as with spinning gear. Push a lot of water and make sure it's big and easily seen. Looks like I have a few patterns to try out. Of course I'll bring along the almighty Woolly Bugger too.

Thanks guys. I know that in stained water things really have to stick out. Either blacks/blues/purples/dark olives, as well as chartreuse. Any and all combinations of those work too in my experience. You also have to cause some commotion and push water. Both muddlers and that Zonker Bonker look like they'd push some water. I'll be tying some Twin-Tail Madonnas up definitely. I'll have to get some Cactus Chenille and some dark rabbit strips and experiment with that Zonker Bonker too.

I'll have to check out the tying instructions. Didn't know it was in the database. I'll have to check that out. Thanks! My biggest to date isn't a true "giant". But then again who'd argue with a 25 incher? I don't know how many I've caught over 20. I'm hell bent to break into the 30's, and it would be KILLER to catch one on topwater! I can only imagine fishing that thing at night and then BAM! Just scaring the hell outta me. THAT would be something. This thing is my kind of dry fly!

Well, the Smallies will start going bonkers soon and put on the feedbag in preparation for their upcoming orgies, and I'm looking for some effective flies for the high water and high/muddy (but not blown out) water that's typical of springtime. The Woolly Bugger is an obvious choice. It'll work in damn near any water level/condition. And I'm thinking about tying up some Madonnas or Marabou muddlers in Chartreuse, Firetiger, and/or Yellow in addition to the darker colors. I'm also thinking about some sorta deceiver crawfish/sculpin pattern if I need to get down quick. I'm also gonna add rattles to the muddlers and crawfish pattern with some mylar tubing. Am I on track? I don't have much experience with muddy water and fly fishing. What are some of your favorite patterns for high and high/muddy water?

No problem! Those TMC300 hooks are in darn near every fly tying shop that's at least relatively decent, and they're 6x long and very thick, so they're plenty long and strong enough to bend up without adversely affecting hook integrity. Especially since it's such a PITA trying to track them down (I made a lame attempt once), this is a simple alternative.

The big Browns where I live gorge on 10"-12" stocker Rainbows (not that I've fished something that big yet; I've just heard too many stories from Striper fisherman there). I'd be surprised if baby muskrat wasn't on the menu. How did you tie that? I wonder if an articulated fly with palmered rabbit strips and a yarn tail would double as a baby muskrat? :dunno:

One pattern that I have high hopes for that uses a keel hook is a Stacked Blonde. It uses size 2 keel hooks (I just take a #2 TMC300 and bend up my own keel hooks). It's actually designed to ride hook point down instead of up. The keel hook's used to create bulk. It was designed by Kelly Galloup (I think) for Trout, but I'm thinking that it would be equally effective on just about anything that eats fish (especially all of the basses; smallmouth, largemouth, white, striped, hybrid). The gist of it is to tie a short clump of bucktail on the top of the keel hook. Then tie a clump on the bend, rotate it to the hook point side, and make a few wraps between the bucktail and the hook shank to make the bucktail lay horizontal. Then tie in a clump on the bottom of the part of the shank near the hook eye. Each clump of bucktail should be tied in so it extends a little past the bucktail clump that preceeded it. Then take 2 LONG blood quill marabou feathers and tie them on top of the shank near the hook eye, wrapping it up to where the keel begins. It should be big and bulky out of the water, but it slims down when stripped in the water.

For the Stacked Blondes I've been tying, I've just been using a TMC300 hook in Size 2 and bending my own keel hook with some pliers. Much simpler than trying to track down some on the internet.

Whatever they're hitting on! Seriously though, I have limited experience with trout on a fly. So far, #4 Sparkleminnows and 3" Whitlock Sheep Shad have been effective in the limited amount of time that conditions have been conducive to fly fishing since July (when I started fly fishing). Unless I'm fishing in a canoe by myself (which is rare when I trout fish), I can't fish nymphs or dries since my friends are spin fisherman and they'd throw me overboard if I fish like that. My fly would constantly be in their way. I can limit this to Streamers, though. Streamer fishing is the most EXCITING way to fly fish for trout. To heck with Dry Flies. I'd rather see a 20 incher destroy a streamer than to watch it sip in a midge or mayfly spinner. With that said, I'd rather catch fish than not catch fish. If fishing a dry or nymph means the difference between catching fish and not catching fish (and I can fish that way without annoying my friends), you can bet I'd be tying on something other than a streamer. I have a lot of experimenting to do with Sculpin and Crawfish patterns. I know Shad patterns work well on my river.