Clouser Dumbells

[smallieFanatic 0]

This may sound somewhat funny, but does a clouser minnow need the dumbell eyes? or is there a kind of clouser that doesn't need eyes?

Any help would be apreciated

 

Tight Lines,

Yon

[deeky 0]

The dumbells do a couple of important things that really make a Clouser a Clouser. First, they add weight, making the fly fish deeper in the water column. Second, depending on how far back you tie them to the shank, they affect the swimming action of the fly from jigging to gliding. Third, when they are tied on the top of the hook shank, they actually flip the hook over in the water, making the hook point ride up and thereby making it considerably more weedless. I also like this for fishing crappies because their mouths are so soft, the roof of their mouth is the best place to hook them.

 

There are always variations in any pattern that you have different people tying. I would say, in the context of a Clouser, removing the eyes would be a considerable change and make it more of a general bucktail. But that could be a very effective pattern as well.

 

That's my two cents.

 

Deeky

[smokinprice 0]

The eyes make it sink....so yeah they need the eyes

[smokinprice 0]

well I think Deeky hit the nail right on the head

[smallieFanatic 0]

alright, thanks.

[tidewaterfly 0]

I also agree that deeky has explained it as well as can be explained. The only thing I'll add, is that the Clouser style, makes use of the eyes, otherwise it's not a Clouser. There are a variety of materials & sizes that the barbell/dumbbell eyes are available in that will change the sink rate, so the style can be effective at various depths. Lead, brass, tungsten, aluminum and even bead chain of different material or sizes will all work.

[the roughfisher 0]

yep, deeky put it perfectly. a clouser without eyes is pretty much a bucktail or deceiver pattern.

 

I've used bead chain eyes in place of dumbells on smaller clouser variants that I have tied down to size 6 and 8 salt hooks. I tied these lighter to give them a slower sink rate, especially when I want to fish to suspended fish higher in the water column. On these smaller clousers, craft fur makes a good substitute for the wing, and gives it a bit more body than bucktail.

 

 

[peregrines 0]

If you're new to tying, here's a simple bucktail just as an example.

 

http://globalflyfisher.com/patterns/shiner/

 

Unlike a clouser it will ride hook point down, but you can tie it up using the same materials as you would a clouser without eyes-

 

You can make it as complicated as you want, but to keep it simple:

 

Hook- any streamer hook, any size, something like a 4 xlong or 3 xl long size 6 for smallies would be good

 

thread: any

 

body: you could just use thread, or wrap a strand of wool, chenille, krystal flash, mylar tinsel, body braid, or mylar tubing. Or you could just leave the shank bare after laying some thread near the front for the wing before tying it on.

 

"Wing"- depends on what you have. Solid color, mix a few colors, or put on in layers ( olive over white, yellow over red over yellow etc). You can use bucktail like this one, or marabou for a completely different look.

 

Topping: For a back, you can put a layer of brown bucktail (from the "wrong"side of the bucktail) or 5-6 strands of strung peacock herl to imitate the natural coloration of minnows.

 

Flash: Optional. A few strands of pearl or any other color Krystal Flash tied in before (underneath) or after (along either side) tying in the wing.

 

Throat: This example uses a wrapped hackle ahead of the wing. Completely optional, I don't bother.

 

Eyes- paint 'em, stick on mylar eyes, or skip em.

 

Since the fly is not weighted it won't flip like a clouser, go as deep, or have the jigging motion. But it is an easy minnow imitation, and can be deadly. You can modify sizes and colors to match local minnows, or tie in bright attractor colors. But all white is tough to beat.

 

good luck

 

peregrines

[FKROW 0]

Bead chain eyes were used to invert a streamer type fly for many years prior to Clouser Deep Minnows.

Ref: West coast Comet fly, bonefish flys, Dan Blanton's salt water flys etc.

 

The one neat idea from Bob Clouser and Lefty Kreh (Lefty co-developed the fly) is the placement of the lead eyes, they are 1/3 hook shank back from the hook eye, this make the fly glide in a level position.

 

Most FF consider the Clouser Minnow to be more of a jig that dives to the bottom,,,,,in fact many FF call the fly a Jig in a less than kind reference.

 

When Tom Shumacker of Wapsi first introduced the barbell shaped lead eyes, we looked at them and could not figure any usefull application in fly dressing.

 

Regards,

FK

[DoubleHaul 0]

I read that Tom Schmuecker came up with idea for lead eyes while trying fill bead chain eyes with lead solder. I'm guessing he wished he patented the idea!

[tyrite 0]

I would have to say that even though the eyes have a very important job with getting the fly down in deeper water!!!

But if you are fishing in shallow water you can yous beads or Chan eyes insted.

 

I hope that this helps!! tyrite

[bowfin47 0]

Re: How about a little "clouser" history lesson?

 

In the late 1940's in order to add weight to the classic and ever popular bucktail streamers, Joseph Bates added bead chain eyes. He stated that the "new" streamer didn't deserve a "new" name or to be named after him, as he had only added bead chain. (Check out Bates' large streamer book... it holds up well even today!)

 

In the mid-1980's, like Bates before him, Tom Schmucker of Wapsi, saw the need for an even heavier means of weighting that "classic bead chain streamer", and Tom designed, manufactured, and sold small lead dumb bell eyes to be used in the place of the bead chain on the ever popular, small bucktail streamers.

 

These small lead eyes sold like crazy, and soon every tyer in the country, or at least every FFF tyer that attended the Southern Council Conclave in Mountain Home, AR, where the dumbbell eyes were first exhibited and sold, quickly adapted the new lead dumbbell eyes and our boxes filled with these new heavier and more effective "Bucktail Streamers".

 

In years later (i.e. about 1989), Fly Fisherman magazine came out with an article by Lefty Kreh, in which Lefty described the so called "Clouser Minnow"... named after Lefty's long time, close friend, and well known guide, Bob Clouser.

 

When that magazine arrived at my friend Bill's house, he opened it up and said "Look at this!" Then, Bill then walked over to his tying bench and opened one of several steamer boxes - a fly box that contained about 150 "Clousers"... many of them well-worn from catching fish, and Bill stated, "I didn't know that we've been tying "CLOUSERS"! Where the hell did that come from?"

 

Now, Lefty is a wonderful guy, and I also hear the Bob Clouser is a fine person. Lefty once told me that he always does what he can "to help out his friends"... as well we all should, but as a tyer who has had my innovative patterns credited in print to people to whom I demo.ed that pattern, I still have a hard time with this whole "clouser" deal.

 

It goes to show that regardless of which tyer comes up with a new pattern, technique, or innovation, it is the person who first has that pattern, technique, or innovation PUBLISHED WITH THEIR NAME ON IT that gets the CREDIT! Forever! 'Cuz ya' can't put the genie back in the bottle, once it escapes... I know - I've tried.

 

So, in answer to your question, "does a clouser minnow need the dumbell eyes? " Sure, it does, but a "classic bucktail streamer" does not need lead eyes, nor does a "Bates-inspired bead chain eyed bucktail streamer"!

 

In the end you can:

 

A) Follow the lead of Joseph Bates and Tom Schmucker and say that the change from bead chain to lead eyes was not enough of a variation to warrant a "new name". Therefore this pattern should still be designated by its classic name, "Bucktail Streamers";

 

Buck the tide and call them after the man who designed the lead eyes and first placed them on a bucktail streamer, therefore this pattern should be known as "Schmuckers"; or

 

C) Honor the man who's lifelong friend "took care of him" and ignore A and B and call ANY "forward-weighted streamer" whether with bead chain, lead dumbbell eyes, or coneheads after Bob Clouser. After all that's what the "experts" in the magazines do.

 

The choice is yours.

 

However, this does lead to the next obvious question,

 

"Who's name should be on the so-called "Cone-Head Clousers"?

 

If Bob Clouser gets to have his name on Bates' streamer by being one of thousands of tyers who added a common, easily purchased, innovative tying material to a "classic pattern", then who's name should be on that streamer when "cone heads" are utilized to replace the lead dumbbells?

 

Oh, and don't tell me that Clouser invented the conehead..........

 

Oh well, in the end, only a few "enlightened" tyers will care...

 

Bowfin47

[fishaholic69 0]

I use bead chain for fishing 5 feet or less. I then will use something heavier for faster flow or deep waters.

[Bob Cunningham 0]

I have also seen versions where aluminum dumbbells are used, and weighted in the middle to get a vesions that works the mid depths a little better.

[day5 0]

Eyeless clouser = thundercreek bucktail. I do not use bead chain at all. I cant seem to get it deep enough in lakes or rivers. On the rivers over here I cant get bear chain more than a foot deep. In lakes I do not care to fish streamers in a slow finesse fashion I like to rip them. Not counting crappie most of the species I fish for are hanging out on the bottom or suspended in deep water. In a river for smallies steel or trout I may use a 3 foot 6ips sink tip and a lead eye clouser. Its the best way to drag the bottom.