Adams

[purolohi kalastaja 0]

I would agree. Very improved for a week's worth of tying between work and other obligations. Especially since you've only been tying for a few months.

 

I think once you get some more appropriate hackles the flies will improve a lot. Did you try the trick I suggested for getting the tails to not curve down the hook? (thread bump behind the tie-in point?)

 

How many flies from the first one you posted to this one?

 

I tend to like my hackles a bit more full, so I think your hackle is one the edge of full enough, but Futzer does this for a living and I'm just a hack, so... :hyst:

 

-PK

[Alas Babylon 0]

I would agree. Very improved for a week's worth of tying between work and other obligations. Especially since you've only been tying for a few months.

 

I think once you get some more appropriate hackles the flies will improve a lot. Did you try the trick I suggested for getting the tails to not curve down the hook? (thread bump behind the tie-in point?)

 

How many flies from the first one you posted to this one?

 

I tend to like my hackles a bit more full, so I think your hackle is one the edge of full enough, but Futzer does this for a living and I'm just a hack, so... :hyst:

 

-PK

Hey PK. Thanks. I havn't tried the thread bump yet and I think I have made 5 serious attempts and 2 or 3 fooling with different color combinations. Grizzle and yellow grizzle mix was interesting. I don't think I am even worthy of carrying either Futzers of your net. Just keep coming with the advice cause an old dog can learn new tricks.

Peace

AB

 

[utyer 0]

just really a general questions i seem to have a hard time findind any hackle fibers taht are small enough to use on hooks below 12 why is this? i have mainly strung saddle hackle is this the problem? is there a certain type of hackle to b uy so that your flies below 12 wont look all wack

 

You have correctly identified your problem. Strung saddle hackle is not good for dry flies of ANY size. Strung saddle may be usefull for streamer wings, and hackle on wooly buggers, and other large wet flies. It is most usable for throat hackle on wet flies. Very little strung saddle will be stiff enough for or short enough in the barbs for dry flies.

 

You CAN use top grade saddle on the skin for dry flies. Look for hackle from some of these growers: Metz, Whiting, Hoffman, Conrach, Keogh, and Ewing. I am sure there are others. If you can shop in person for this, take the saddle patch out of the package, and look at the feathers closely. Dry fly saddles will be long (up to 16") and have a very very long taper. There will be a very large part of the feather with very little web. The web is the darker center of the feathers. For dry flys, you want very little (less than 25%) web. The extream length of these feathers will enable you to tie more than one fly from each feather. The best grades from Whiting, and Hoffman will provide enough usable length for up to 5 flies from each feather. Since these hackles are from birds grown specifically for their hackle quality, they will be condiderably more expensive than imported saddles, or strung saddles. When shopping, look for half saddles so that you can get more colors and save a little.

 

I have seen the top grade saddle patches priced up to $85.00. Second and third grade patches will be much less, and half patches will be a little cheaper still. The second grades from most will be very usable. The other down side of dry fly saddle patches is that they tend to only have feathers of two or three sizes. You may find a patch with plenty of hackle of a size for a 12 or 14 with very few 16. The better feathers will be along both sides of the patch. The center feathers may contain a little too much web, but that is something to be judges as you look them over.

 

I have a few saddles that have feathers sized for size 18 drys. These patches are more and more common.

 

The only other way to purchase dry fly hackle is on the neck itself. These necks (commonly called capes) come from the same growers. Necks will be as expensive, if not more expensive than the saddles. A good quality neck will have a full range of hackles from size 22 all the way to size 6 or larger. The feathers on the bottem of the neck, will make good tailing for dry flies. Purchasing full or half necks is the ONLY way to get a full range of sizes in the desired quality, and colors. The imported necks MAY work for large drys, but often these are not really very good.

 

Packaged hackle of a given size is avaliable, as are some smaller patches of saddle hackle. Priced around $15.00 for a few long feathers. One full saddle patch will equall 8 to 18 of these.

 

As for the colors you will need look for these listed in order of importance: Grizzly (barred black and white,) Brown (dark reddish brown) Dun (a smokey gray,) Ginger (light orangy tan) Furnace (brown with a pronounced dark center,) Cream, White, and black. Cree is a very nice color its a barred feather if ginger, brown, black. Barred ginger is similar to cree but its mostly light and dark shades of ginger. Silver badger is cream to white with a dark center stripe, and honey badger will be a lite honey color with a dark center.

 

If you have read this far, you may be put off by all the expence of rounding up sufficient hackle. Indeed I have over $5000 invested in top quality dry fly hackle. It took years to accumulate that much, and I rarely even use it. I tie 90% of all my dry flies without hackle at all.

 

There are excellent ways to tie floating flies that will catch fish that use NO hackle at all. Google the Comparadun learn how to tie it, and fish it. The materials needed are simple. You need hooks, dubbing (fine) deer hair (again fine) and some moose body hair for tails. A variation of the comparadun is the Sparkle Dun which uses zlon as the tail material. The zlon is supposed to imitate the trailing nymphal shuck. With a $15 assortment of dry fly dubbing, and a half dozen patches of good deer hair, you can tie hundreds of great fishing flies.

 

[purolohi kalastaja 0]

Here's one I tied up after talking about this pattern with you, AB.

 

As you can see, still no where as good as Bruce's....

[Alas Babylon 0]

Here's one I tied up after talking about this pattern with you, AB.

 

As you can see, still no where as good as Bruce's....

And mine no where as good as yours. I have gone back into my copy of Peter Gathercoles book Fly tying for beginners and have found some fundimental information that I had missed in my hurry to get started. More specific recipe instructions that have cleared up a few more questions about the process. Is there no end to all this learning? :wallbash: Anyway it will be a while before I can get back to work on the Adams. I'll give you a holler when I can.

 

Peace

AB

 

[Alas Babylon 0]

Hello Bruce and Futzer.

 

I'm back with another try. I am still struggling with the wings but I think this one is an improvement. Please let me know what you think. I did pick up new material at Jays but I think my next thing to pick up is the 100 pack Futzer suggested.

 

Thanks

AB

[Bruce Derington 0]

AB, your getting the hang of it but your proportions are still a tad off. Body should start at the bend(where thread is inline with barb) that way your body will be longer. Also the hackle goes too far back, I sure hope you can make it tommorrow night! Heres what we will be tying

[Alas Babylon 0]

AB, your getting the hang of it but your proportions are still a tad off. Body should start at the bend(where thread is inline with barb) that way your body will be longer. Also the hackle goes too far back, I sure hope you can make it tommorrow night! Heres what we will be tying

 

Hi Bruce

Thanks for looking and I plan on being there tomorrow. I don't have a camera and if this old boat anchor ever had a microphone it's long gone. I'll have to just watch and IM if I have anything worth saying. Getting the wings right is still not coming easy but I think the fish have stopped laughing.

AB

[Bruce Derington 0]

Hopefully you have speakers if not you can still watch, see me there

[Alas Babylon 0]

Hopefully you have speakers if not you can still watch, see me there

 

I do have speakers. What a marvolous thing this computer is. I would upgrade but most of my money seems to go to fly tying and fishing. Oh well.

[jimmyboy 0]

Good quality hackle not only makes a better looking fly but makes it so much easier to tie. The body dubbing looks pretty nice

Thanks. The dubbing is getting easier but could you reccomend which hackle make for a better job?

 

Dont be worried when you see the price tag on the hackle, it wont be cheap but its worth it.

[smallieFanatic 0]

Nice work, the flies keep getting better and better :yahoo:

 

 

Jan

[purolohi kalastaja 0]

Hello Bruce and Futzer.

 

I'm back with another try. I am still struggling with the wings but I think this one is an improvement. Please let me know what you think. I did pick up new material at Jays but I think my next thing to pick up is the 100 pack Futzer suggested.

 

Thanks

AB

 

I notice that you didn't ask for my opinion, but you're going to get it anyway. That's been my attitude for 30+ years, so why change now? :hyst:

 

 

The wings seem too tall. Make them the length of the hook shank. The hackle should start right behind the wings, and make it more dense. (No comments from the peanut gallery about being dense, ok? ) Like Bruce said, start the body at the bend. I would also try to get the tail fibers to stay together more, and I think that by starting the body at the bend, you might achieve that. Looking better, though.

 

Good to see that you will be attending the class. I would, but I've tried to watch those on dial-up before, and I'm still watching well after the class is over.

 

-PK

[Alas Babylon 0]

Hello Bruce and Futzer.

 

I'm back with another try. I am still struggling with the wings but I think this one is an improvement. Please let me know what you think. I did pick up new material at Jays but I think my next thing to pick up is the 100 pack Futzer suggested.

 

Thanks

AB

 

I notice that you didn't ask for my opinion, but you're going to get it anyway. That's been my attitude for 30+ years, so why change now? :hyst:

 

 

The wings seem too tall. Make them the length of the hook shank. The hackle should start right behind the wings, and make it more dense. (No comments from the peanut gallery about being dense, ok? ) Like Bruce said, start the body at the bend. I would also try to get the tail fibers to stay together more, and I think that by starting the body at the bend, you might achieve that. Looking better, though.

 

Good to see that you will be attending the class. I would, but I've tried to watch those on dial-up before, and I'm still watching well after the class is over.

 

-PK

 

You're right , I knew I'd hear your opinion sooner or later. 30+ years..no wonder my beard is grey and the rain hits my scalp so much sooner these days. It's been a blast tho eh! IMHO those wings were just right. It's all in the camera angle don't ou know. :hyst: That wading jacket I told you about happened. Will del appx 4/23. :yahoo: I'll talk at ya later.

 

AB

 

 

[Alas Babylon 0]

Nice work, the flies keep getting better and better :yahoo:

 

 

Jan

 

Thanks Jan. I won't win any races tying these things but at least it keeps me outa my wifes hair for an hour or two. I think she likes that. :j_k:

 

AB