IFFF Skills tying award

[wschmitt3 0]

Thanks for the quick response. I have grey turkey quills and some mallard wings would those be an appropriate substitution? I also just found goose quills on whitetail fly tying is it just the fibers opposite the biot on the feather?

 

Edit: Nevermind I just tried the turkey and mallard. The turkey has a totally different look to it and the mallard is way too short.

[flytire 0]

is it just the fibers opposite the biot on the feather

 

yes

[Crackaig 0]

Perhaps a slightly different perspective.

 

First let me give you some background. The first qualification in Game Angling to be recognised in schools in Scotland contained a fly tying syllabus. I wrote it, and the marking criteria for the examiners. Unlike the IFFF's one this is a qualification recognised by an examining authority with a real academic qualification at the end of it.

 

Many years ago I visited exhibitions at my local art gallery. Now I enjoy draying and painting, but do not claim to be much good at it. At some of the local art society exhibitions I saw pieces of what were called "modern art". I scoffed at them generally, they were not modern art, they were pieces painted by people who didn't know how to use paint. The result was just a mess. Then, while living in Hanover, I visited the Sprengle Museum of Modern Art. WOW Those guys could paint! Their skill and control of the materials they used was evident in every piece. What went onto those canvases was what they intended to go on them. I didn't like them all, but I did appreciate and recognise the value of them. They were art! Not failures to produce art.

 

In the same way calling fly tying an art should not be an excuse for lack of technical skill. If I had a penny for every time I have been told "Its a badly tied fly that catches fish" I would be a lot richer. Now I will accept that a scruffy looking fly will often be more successful. Scruffy and badly tied are not the same thing. Art comes about when technical skill meets creativity. In just the same way that paint requires skill to use, so do fly tying materials. For these to be taught properly requires planning. The result needs to be measurable, or it does not exist. That is why programs like this exist.

 

I am sure that there is no intention to develop a "set of rules" for fly tying. There are requirements for certain techniques to be applied to certain materials if a specific end result is desired. If it were not so there would be no questions in the beginners section. These are not "rules" they are a basic skill set that will enable someone to create art in fly tying. Think of it like a watercolourist learning what kinds of brushed to use for certain effects. There is almost always and alternative, but there are more ways that will not work.

 

Cheers,

C.

[Al Beatty 0]

Thanks for the quick response. I have grey turkey quills and some mallard wings would those be an appropriate substitution? I also just found goose quills on whitetail fly tying is it just the fibers opposite the biot on the feather?

 

Edit: Nevermind I just tried the turkey and mallard. The turkey has a totally different look to it and the mallard is way too short.

Hi Will,

 

Yes, the fibers needed are those opposite of the biot side of the feather stem. Tip: When wrapping the fibers stroke them so they remain even (smoother body) after EVERY turn around the hook. If you don't you'll quickly see a fiber or two that is not as tight as its neighbor. Take care & ...

[Prosopium w. 0]

I hope I don't offend the Beatty's by this comment, but, if the IFFF is going to promote such a program they might want to use well-tied, pretty flies for their step-by-steps. The woolly bugger is not great (and why is it unweighted?), the hare's ear is also pretty ugly, and the soft hackle is atrocious. The other two flies are good. I know from professional experience that good shots of flies are tough to get, and macro photography magnifies every miniscule mistake, and that once a fly is published it can't be unpublished (believe me, there's a couple flies and pics out there I'd like to redo!), but that soft hackle step-by-step is really bad. The head and its excess length shouldn't be used as an archetype for that pattern by anyone and the body is poor. Another critique is that tying in the hackle by the tip is a much better technique in my opinion. This isn't "right" of course (there is no "right" in tying after all), and maybe it isn't traditional (I should but don't know), but it is sure easier and less frustrating.

 

Thanks for listening to my unsolicited two cents.

[Al Beatty 0]

Hi Prosopium w.

 

No problem with your comments. The only exception we would take is the bugger did have weight on the body and we agree that tying the soft-hackle in by the tip is the method we personally prefer. Your comments lead us to believe you must be a pro photographer. That sounds interesting. Thanks for your two cents. Take care & ...

[Prosopium w. 0]

Mr. and Mrs. Beatty,

 

You might want to look at the bugger again. No lead is included in the recipe or instructions. I am not a pro photographer, far from it in fact. But I did have a stint as a writer for Fly Tyer and American Angler. We both had articles in a couple of the same issues in fact. The pics were the most frustrating part of the whole process and part of the reason I gave up on writing the articles.

 

Thanks for listening!

[Al Beatty 0]

Hi Prosopium w.

 

You are very right. I just looked on the website and there is no weight in the body. I was looking at an old draft of the handbook I printed out and not at the file on the website. Somehow there was a change from the paper copy I've had over the last several months. Sorry for the misstatement. I went back to check and there is no weight on the video pattern either - my mistake. I must admit I don't put weight on all of my buggers. I mark them by using thread on the head that is the same color as the body for the unweighted Buggers and black on the head of the weighted Buggers. On the black buggers I place a couple turns of copper wire at the end of the head to tell which is weighted and which is not.

 

Fly photography was a real problem for us for years until Jim Schollmeyer took us under his wing and put us through a "course on fly photography." His advise was most helpful.

 

For the record: Our part of the Awards program is shooting the videos of the flies in the program and the following evaluation process of each pattern we tied. The downloadable e-book PDF was a group effort. Take care & ...

[flytire 0]

ive never seen the commandment that states woolly buggers must only be tied with a lead wire under body

[Prosopium w. 0]

ive never seen the commandment that states woolly buggers must only be tied with a lead wire under body

No, but most are probably tied that way. I've never seen the commandment that states Hare's Ears must only be tied with a lead wire underbody either but that one was. Anyway, your point does not accurately reflect the intent of my statement.

[cheech 0]

 

ive never seen the commandment that states woolly buggers must only be tied with a lead wire under body

No, but most are probably tied that way. I've never seen the commandment that states Hare's Ears must only be tied with a lead wire underbody either but that one was. Anyway, your point does not accurately reflect the intent of my statement.

 

These micro arguments here are precisely why this program has it's shortcomings.

 

I watched the Hare's Ear video, and the thorax is way off. Shouldn't it be tied with a portion of the mask too?

[Quacker 0]

I'm a new member of IFFF and the fly tying group. I am also participating in the fly tying skills program. I have not found anything about this program that indicates it's a required program for anyone or restricts anyone from conducting fly tying demos, fly tying training or anything else you wish to do. I also did not find anything about the fly police looking over anyone's shoulder evaluating their flies.

 

The comments I see about the program appear to come from seasoned fly tiers with significant experience. In that case this program is not for you and if you see no value in it maybe you might think about the guys who are trying to be as good as you. There are probably many less experienced tiers out there that could benefit from this program, I have. What I've learned so far is the flies I had been tying were really not that good, the fly police didn't tell me this I could see many of the things I was not doing correctly because of this program. It is also teaching me to be much more precise, pay very close attention to detail as well as over all critical fly proportions. I think these are good things and it's making me a better fly tyer.

 

I believe the goal of the skills program is to help increase the fly tier's skill set for those who wish to participate in the program, it's helping me but I'm just an average tyer trying to get better.

 

 

[fishingfly 0]

It has been mentioned on here that there are many ways to tie each pattern and do it well. Even things like changes in material and proportions, as well as method, might be acceptable in the overall scheme of things, but in a situation where things are going to be held up for judging it is necessary to keep the variables to an absolute minimum so that everyone is being measured to the very same standard and then you isolate the one measure that you want, "skill'. That is why you see the specific patterns, instructions, and videos being offered.

 

The goal is to offer each tier an objective critique and evaluation of the level of skill that they are currently tying at and offer some suggestions that will help them move forward. Taken in this context, tiers participating in the program should derive significant benefit from following through as far as their skill level allows. The bronze award requires some skill to achieve. The silver award is considerably higher and quite a number of people might have difficulty attaining that level for some time. The gold award might not be within the grasp of some tiers who would be deemed expert in some narrow areas of tying but haven't broadened their skill base. Tiers have a choice, motivate, or give up. I suspect that the motivated will eventually achieve their goal, they usually do. At the very least, they'll become significantly better tiers. That's my goal.

[RexW 0]

Fishingfly, how's your progress going toward the award?

[nick2011 0]

I would probably be a disgrace to the tying community if there were rules, however my flies catch fish that is all the reward I would ever need