traditional catskill dry flies

[flounder 0]

most of us are familiar with the phrase "traditional catskill" style. i was wondering if "traditional catskill" refers merely to a style of dry fly, or if there are distinct patterns associated with that phrase. googled it up, and returned with a list of "traditional catskill" dry flies:

 

quill gordon

light cahill

adams

dark hedrickson

march brown

blue dun

blue winged olive, and

royal coachman (?).

 

am i using the terminology correctly? is the list, above, accurate--are there any missing? thanks for the help.

[mgj 0]

right of the top of my head add....

 

any number of varients

bivisibles

coffin fly

red quill

delaware adams

 

[flounder 0]

thanks mgj. i think perhaps i should re-phrase. i guess i'm looking for the "original catskill" drys. i would consider an adams a "traditional" catskill dry, tied in the "traditional catskill style", while an adams thorax would not be a "traditional" catskill dry, even though it may be tied in the "traditional style." i'm looking for catskill flies with a historical pedigree.

[Lance Kekel 0]

For me the first flies that come to mind when your talking the traditional classic Catskill flies are the Quill Gordon, March Brown, Light Cahill and the Hendrickson. All tied with the flank feather wings.

[appalachian angler (tn.) 0]

I agree with Lance. The Hendrickson's and Cahill light and dark varieties, Quill Gordon, American March Brown were probably the earliest Catskills ties and all have flank feather wings.

 

A.A.

[Flytier 0]

Uh, allow me to refine the original question a bit more: what defines if a Catskill fly as a Catskill fly?

 

If it one of a set list of patterns?

A(ny) fly which originated in that region of New York state?

A(ny) fly tied by someone living there?

A(ny) fly tied to meet certain tying criteria of proportions and/or materials?

 

Or?

 

Cheers,

Hans W

 

[gadabout 0]

QUOTE

i was wondering if "traditional catskill" refers merely to a style of dry fly, or if there are distinct patterns associated with that phrase.

 

Well it can refer to both. It is a style of tying as well as a set of flies that originated in the Catskills. The Adams would be considered a Catskill style fly even though it originated in Michigan.

 

 

The definitive aspect of Catskill-style dry flies would have to be the two divided wings. The wings would generally be made of flank feathers, hackle tips or quill segments.

[Flytier 0]

gadabout,

 

QUOTE

The definitive aspect of Catskill-style dry flies would have to be the two divided wings. The wings would generally be made of flank feathers, hackle tips or quill segments.

 

Hmmm... if divided wings were the defining criteria hundreds of patterns which have been tied in Europe for several centuries would suddenly become "traditional Catskills style" flies?

 

Surely there has to be more...

 

Cheers,

Hans W

[flounder 0]

I know a Catskill Style fly when I see one, however, a definition is slightly harder to arrive at. Taking a stab at it, the wings would be upright and divided, and made of a natural feather, set back approxamately one-quarter to one-third the hook shank. The throax, around the wings, would be heavily hacked, the body would be thin and sparse, the tail would be made of hackle/feather fibers.

 

As for defining the "original" Catskill dries, one would have to presume they are flies developed in or around the Catskill area during a given time-period. I have no idea what time period I'm refering to, however. Also adhering to the above criteria.

 

I also had no idea the Adams was created in MI, as any tutorial on the subject of tying "Catskills" invariably begins with the Adams.

 

Perhaps I should start researching the flies tied with mallard flank wings, as it seems the earliest Catskills used this as a winging material. I also noticed the number to a Catskill fly fishing meusem--a quick call may be in order.

[Flytier 0]

Flounder,

 

Ahh.. the Adams

 

Originated by Len Halladay on the Boardman river in Michigan.

 

We all know what it looks like, right?

 

Uh... maybe.

 

The original Adams is a tad different from the contemporary ties.

 

Tail: Golden Pheasant tippets (not mixed grizzly/brown hackle fibers)

Body: Gray wool (not muskrat)

Wings: Grizzly hackle tips, tied _spent_ (not tied upright)

Hackle: Mixed grizzly/brown (ah, at least we got this right!)

 

Cheers,

Hans W

still looking for what defines "traditional Catskills style"

 

[gadabout 0]

QUOTE (Flytier @ May 1 2005, 09:50 AM)

Flounder, Ahh.. the Adams Originated by Len Halladay on the Boardman river in Michigan. We all know what it looks like, right? Uh... maybe. The original Adams is a tad different from the contemporary ties. Tail: Golden Pheasant tippets (not mixed grizzly/brown hackle fibers) Body: Gray wool (not muskrat) Wings: Grizzly hackle tips, tied _spent_ (not tied upright) Hackle: Mixed grizzly/brown (ah, at least we got this right!) Cheers, Hans W still looking for what defines "traditional Catskills style"

QUOTE

still looking for what defines "traditional Catskills style"

 

OK here's some more:

 

Wings: divided wing of flank feathers, hackle tips, or quild segments tied somewhere forward of the center of the hook shank.

 

Body: dubbing or stripped quill, not necessarily sparse.

 

Hackle: rooster hackle tied behind and in front of the wing

 

Tail: single tail made of a clump of fibers, usually hackle.

 

 

 

 

[flounder 0]

(flounder taps out)

[Flytier 0]

Gadabout,

 

Not wishing to be a pest, but...

 

QUOTE

Wings: divided wing of flank feathers, hackle tips, or quild segments tied somewhere forward of the center of the hook shank. Body: dubbing or stripped quill, not necessarily sparse. Hackle: rooster hackle tied behind and in front of the wing Tail: single tail made of a clump of fibers, usually hackle.

 

Many, many pre-1900 UK patterns would qualify.

 

Hans W

still wondering why the above would warrant "traditional Catskills style" description, as they would appear no different in composition, style or proportions from what came before.

 

[gadabout 0]

Hans,

 

Maybe this would be easier if you posted an example of a fly that fits the above description but is not considered a Catskill-style fly. I didn't mention it before, but we're talking dry flies here.

[Flytier 0]

Gadabout,

 

Just one example is a classic UK pattern called the Greenwell's Glory, originated by Canon William Greenwell (1820-1918).

 

 

Cheers,

Hans W