Bird Flu & Hackle Chickens

[Troutnut 0]

I found this interesting story floating around a bunch of places on the Web... the original sources seems to be the Seattle Post-Intelligencer, but it's no longer up on their website. I thought people might find it interesting:

 

Bird flu puts dent in fly fishing biz

Staff and agencies

28 August, 2006

 

 

By JOHN MARSHALL, AP Sports Writer Fri Aug 25, 3:07 PM ET

 

DELTA, Colo. - Lines of long, narrow, white buildings spread out across the ranch in the lush, green farmland of western Colorado. Inside are chickens, up to 85,000 in each of the dimly lit coops with interiors that feel like greenhouses and smell like outhouses.

 

Whiting is no mad scientist. He‘s a poultry geneticist and his company, Whiting Farms, is the world‘s largest producer of the chicken hackle that fly fishermen use for tying flies. Whiting keeps a watchful eye on his birds, from the time the chicks are hatched until their feathers are packaged and shipped to companies in roughly 40 countries.

 

Still, the panic over this new strain of an old disease has reached his ranch on the Western slope of the Rockies — in the form of red tape.

 

Bird flu was first documented in the 1800s and the latest strain was first discovered in 1997, when H5N1 was isolated from a goose in China. The virus began its global march in 2003, sparking hysteria that peaked with fears it might mutate into a form easily transferable among humans and start a pandemic. So far, at least 141 people have died and the increased attention has led to misinformation that spread exponentially faster than the disease itself.

 

From blogs to fly shops, fishermen wanted to know the dangers of bird flu. Do you need to wear a mask when tying flies? Will I get bird flu if I lick the hackles to get them to lay down? Do I need to wash my hands after handling feathers?

 

"I thought people were smarter than that," said Karl Schmuecker, whose family owns Wapsi Fly Inc., a wholesale distributor of fly-tying materials in Mountain Home, Ark. "It‘s impossible. The virus has to have a live host. You can‘t even get it off the skins. None of the product here in the U.S. even had a chance to be infected, so it‘s pretty ridiculous."

 

Loose feathers and strung hackle — feathers that are plucked and sewn back together — are still allowed into the United States after they‘ve been certified clean (steamed at high enough temperatures to kill the virus). That hasn‘t affected the fly-tying industry much. What has is a USDA ban on importing feathers still attached to the skin from the three dozen or so countries where H5N1 has been detected.

 

And the higher overhead has been passed on to the fly shops and fishermen; Wapsi‘s fall catalog will include some higher prices, though not everything will go up because the company stocks some products one to two years in advance.

 

"I know a lot of the companies I deal with who import from the Asian countries are having trouble getting some of the feathers in — they get tied up for long periods of time," said Grady Allen, owner of UpCountry Sportfishing in Pine Meadow, Conn. "When we‘re looking for feathers, sometimes they don‘t have what we‘re looking for because they‘ve been restricted, at least temporarily. So when I order them up, they‘re just not there."

 

But Whiting doesn‘t think it‘ll get very far. He was part of a federal avian task force back in the 1980s and saw avian influenza firsthand.

 

It happened in 1983 in Lancaster County, Pa., a dense agricultural area filled with everything from backyard farms to industrial operations. It was the perfect breeding ground for a disease to spread and a strain of bird flu — not H5N1 — quickly jumped from farm to farm. The military got involved, the area was quarantined and thousands of domestic birds were killed.

 

Whiting and his team also drew blood from thousands of wild birds to see if they might spread the disease. What they found was none of the migratory birds were carriers and the virus was spread by human vectors, like feed trucks.

 

It was an agricultural nightmare come true, but the virus was eventually eradicated. It was a microcosm of what‘s going on in Asia, though Whiting doesn‘t think anyone learned anything from it.

 

"Nothing has been more scrutinized or is being monitored more intensely than this avian influenza, ever in the history of poultry," Whiting said. "What I think will happen if avian influenza does get into North America, there‘s such a monitoring of it and everyone is so primed and the media coverage is so intense that they‘re going to come down on it like a 100-ton brick."

[Sturgeon_Catcher 0]

My comment regards this 100 ton brick. Where is it in Asia? Where is it in Africa?

 

No such thing as Global Warming and if there is such a thing then We Will Fix it. Ever heard this song and dance?

 

Bird flu is big and its going to get bigger. The quarantines have already begun and I suggest that feathers are going to be hard to come by.

 

Any idea what the survival rate in humans is after contracting this disease? When this thing gets rolling birds are going to be put down and it won't matter whether they tested true or not. It's only a bird and we are humans. Thus, the birds have to go!!

 

Time will tell. I hate to be a doomsday promoter but, doomsday it is. Time? Not long - a few years maybe. Try to get an Indian Saddle one time and see what has happened in that category.

 

later

Fred

 

would be happy to elucidate if anyone would desire the source of my prediction.

[steelie 0]

Good Day,

 

Hmmm.... seem to remember reading something recently were Wapsi, I think, said they were not too horribly concerned and that due to the cleaning and curing process, the virus cannot survive. It really may be more a concern for the breeders keeping their stock healthy so as not to suffer severe financial and or genetic loss due to infection of said stock. Like any natural material, just make sure you know what you a buying.

 

Steelie

[Sturgeon_Catcher 0]

Science has never even begun to control or even reduce the effects of a virus. Virus's can live in the ground for 25 years and upon reaching the surface are ready to rock and roll again. The temps they can withstand are phenomenol.

 

Mad Cow Disease is a Viron much like a virus and also unable to control. Hmmm seem to recall the eradication method was fire. Not many feathers left after a fire.

 

The same scientists who say there is no problem are the same ones who say pooh to global warming. Same group said we'll prove it. Ozone is readily created by iron filings in salt water. They actually dumped iron filings into the ocean to test the premise. OOPS Iron filings do not stay in suspension. They sink to the bottom and thus no suspension no ozone creation. Not heard much from this group. By the way, same group says that if they have to will create super greenhouses for all to live in. These guys can fix anything. Can't they??????

 

later

Fred

[dafack01 0]

 

 

The same scientists who say there is no problem are the same ones who say pooh to global warming.

 

 

Can you prove this? Seems to me that a scientist who specializes in epidemiology or microbiology wouldn't be doing much research regarding the environment and global warming.

 

BTW, just because something is a virus doesn't mean it has the same properties as other viruses. So one virus can live eons without a live host and can survive a nuclear armageddon. That doesn't necesarily mean that other viruses can do the same. What you're saying is similar to saying that the only way to kill an animal is by using a sidewinder missle, which obviously isn't true. You hit a Robin with a BB gun and you're going to kill it. You don't need a missle. Your logic and facts don't make much sense.

 

Bottom line is that the feather merchants wouldn't put out unsafe products out of fear that someone will get sick and sue them for all they're worth. They wouldn't put out unsafe products.

[Sturgeon_Catcher 0]

Never meant to infer that products were unsafe. Would not even suggest that current products or future products were unsafe.

 

I am speaking only of viruses. This virus is one of if not the strongest ever. That is all that I wish to convey. This is a very strong virus for which I do not believe there is a "100 ton brick."

 

I only wish to say that if this bird flu gets going the changes will be dramatic. The properties of viruses are rather uniform. Different viruses have different effects on humans. All effects are accomplished in the same manner. The manner that viruses reproduce is the problem. I recently studied at Oregon State University. In plant pathology we were lectured by a professor from Russia. He is one of the leading scientist in the field of viruses at the present time. A brilliant man. He has been working on the aids virus for several years. We do have control of some viruses but only in the context of gene manipulation. It is the basis of which I speak. Having recently studied these factors in a scientific community.

 

Sorry to present any other thought than what I have expanded upon here.

 

later

Fred

 

rereading I see where I have mislead you. My same scientists are those people who feel the scientific and technical community can solve problems such as these. The only thing they have in common is that they are scientists and believe that science can solve these problems.

[7wt 0]

So I guess we should all stock up know, after all....the sky is falling.

[fish`n feind 0]

when there was bird flu by my house in Abottsford,B.C,Canada last year some time i didnt notice the price go up and the goverment had areas quarantined and all the birds were burned. i think it was 25$hr to work at the ovens and people were all over it thats how i heard aboot :hyst: it

[Joe Hard 0]

I heard the pope has caught the bird flu,.............................................

 

Rumor has it he got it from one of his cardinals

[mitch821 0]

I heard the pope has caught the bird flu,.............................................

 

Rumor has it he got it from one of his cardinals

 

 

:hyst: :hyst: :hyst: :hyst: :hyst: :hyst:

 

[JRG 0]

I wanted to clarify a few points. MadCow is nothing like a virus... it is a very stable protein that is able to have similar proteins change their isomeric configuration making them more apt to aggregrate and form protein complexes. It does not carry any genomic data in the form of RNA or DNA as viruses do or have any mode of infection other than consuming it and it cannot freely replicate itself by building new proteins.

 

Viruses are stable, yes, but this does not mean their viability/virulity is maintained. Sturgeon, you have some good points but you make too many broad generalizations like "the properties of viruses are uniform"..... Not true and if you took any in depth classes on the subject you would know this. Some of the mode of actions are similar when you look at how viruses replicate, but how they get their varies widely from different virus families.

 

Viruses are hard to control once they become infectious and are able to freely replicate within a host because they are technically not a living organism and to stop them from replicating you have to target proteins responsible for DNA replication and protein building which produces difficulties when you're dealing with a live host especially since most virus use the hosts polymerases etc to replicate.... Most viruses are harmless, but if they disrupt the body functions too much they become deadly... This is mostly dependent on what types of tissue they infect, how aggressive their replication cycles are, and if they lyse/kill/halt cell functions of the infected cells once replication is initiated/completed. HIV for example does not kill you directly.... but it destroys the functionability of the immune system which makes for a very poor quality of life for obvious reasons...

 

Bird flu will come and go.... we just have to wait it out. The biotechnology is there to even make resistant animals so I wouldn't worry for the long term....

[Sturgeon_Catcher 0]

Thankx JRG for clarifying those points you spoke of.

 

The first words I spoke on Mad Cow was to say it was not a virus but a viron. The purpose in the entrance of this element was to show another element of science regarding major diseases such as Mad Cow Disease. When Mad Cow Disease was discovered, scientists said that it could not mutate and move to humans. If it did move it would take approximately 30 years to do so. The premise was shown faulty when a 27 year old man died within 4 years of exposure.

 

Scientists cannot say that which deals with the unknown.

 

I did make some generalities relating to viruses. The focus of my words was that it was the reproductive cycle where in lies the problem. My point was the all viruses replicate in the same manner. Not that all viruses are alike in their effects.

 

I believe JRG confirms this premise.

 

My other point was that when discovered the current and histortical methodology in dealing with birds is to burn them. This was confirmed in the original article and with the submission by Fish" n feind.

 

Didn't mean to cause a squabble!! Only wanted to say it is bad and going to get worse. Also, when it gets rolling the changes are going to be dramatic.

 

later

Fred

[JRG 0]

Hey Sturgeon,

 

You have some very good points and I agree with you a lot. Just when the generalizations start flying I wanted to clear things up. But one thing with science.... you just never know what will happen until it happens.... there's always that .0001% of uncertainty no matter how certain you are.....

 

My personal take on bird flu.... it's not a big deal.... too bad for all the poor birds that get put under the knife because we can't find a better way to solve the problem... Viruses are a tough nut to crack, mainly due to their ineffeficiency at genomic replication... i.e. they mutate a lot... but I'm sure we'll get a handle on it soon enough.

 

Jeff

[Harold Ray 0]

Good Day,

 

Hmmm.... seem to remember reading something recently were Wapsi, I think, said they were not too horribly concerned and that due to the cleaning and curing process, the virus cannot survive. It really may be more a concern for the breeders keeping their stock healthy so as not to suffer severe financial and or genetic loss due to infection of said stock. Like any natural material, just make sure you know what you a buying.

 

Steelie

 

I agree with JRG in his explanation of the bird flu problem. This virus and others will be with us in one form or another from now on, but we have had this same battle with viruses through the ages. Our genome carries a heavy load of useless DNA left behind by the affect of viruses we, as a species, have confronted before.

 

Steelie is correct in his statements, too. Hackle producers and any major poultry or meat producer runs an enclosed and controlled operation to a great degree. They try to limit the exposure of their animals to new animals, people and contaminants that might cause destruction of their assets and livelihood through control of access for humans, a frequent source of exposure, and facilities. This is not perfect of course, but they spend fortunes protecting themselves and consequently you their consumers. I wouldn't worry a moment about the health consequences of purchasing quality avian products through major producers or suppliers.

 

As said by JRG, mad cow disease, or spongiform encephalitis, is caused be a new agent, an aberrant protein, a prion, that has the capacity to reproduce itself, not a virus.

 

Prions cause diseases, but they aren't viruses or bacteria or fungi or parasites. They are simply proteins, and proteins were never thought to be infectious on their own. Organisms are infectious, proteins are not. Or, at least, they never used to be.

 

The statement above was extracted from this article:

http://science-education.nih.gov/home2.nsf...5256CCD0064857B

 

I, too, have dealt with many viruses for 41 years in my profession, and I don't know of any that can survive for extended periods outside an animal host, whether human, dog, cat, bird or whatever.

 

Ray

[jlsmithii 0]

 

As said by JRG, mad cow disease, or spongiform encephalitis, is caused be a new agent, an aberrant protein, a prion, that has the capacity to reproduce itself, not a virus.

 

Prions cause diseases, but they aren't viruses or bacteria or fungi or parasites. They are simply proteins, and proteins were never thought to be infectious on their own. Organisms are infectious, proteins are not. Or, at least, they never used to be.

 

 

You beat me to this correction. mad cow is not a viron/virus. it is a prion and should not be confused with the debate on avian bird flu.

 

and although everyone is entitled to their opinion, the gloom and doom predicted in some of these posts is perhaps premature. just my .02.