Fly Noteriety

[Guest Big E]

The other day I was looking at tying up the Evil Weevil and noticed that this is a relatively new fly originated by Jeremy Davis and it got me thinking. Granted I am a beginner tyer but I do have aspirations. I am starting to not just copy other people's flies but also thinking about different variations of patterns and would hope someday that I could develop an 'Evil Weevil'. Pondering on this brought about more questions and I thought that I would just sound off here and let you much more experience people let me know what the deal is or just confim that I actually put way too much thought into this stuff. So here goes....

 

Is the normal progression in the skill maturation of a flytyer to change patterns and even develop their own? If you do develop your own pattern, how do you 'protect' it if it gains noteriety? IE how is the Evil Weevil linked to Jeremy Davis or the Copper John to John Barr? Does it require publishing in a flytying book or magazine?

 

I notice that there are daily submissions to the database and I think most of them are variations or new patterns and I know that there are people quite capable of tying new patterns on here. Do the majority of you aspire to having a fly you developed have noteriety or am I just being, and forgive me for a lack of a better descriptor, a fly noteriety ho.

 

:dunno:

[Fred H. 0]

Big E ,when answering a question of this nature I have to state first this is my opinion only as I am not all knowing nor do I pretend to be.This is a great resource to kick new ideas around.The greatest motivation to change a pattern or come up with a new one is necessity.Often times we are forced to change a pattern from its original design to fit a particular fishing situation.We may change color or size and with the advances in new materials we may even change some of the ingrediants.If the changes I've made improve my fish catching ability I will of course keep tying them that way and if I think someone else will benifit from it I may post it here.With all the new materials available today new patterns are being invented everyday.The key in my eyes is wether the new invent has any fish catching value.Is it easy to cast ,how does it swin, how durable is it or wether a better pattern already exists.If you want the recognition for inventing a new fly try filling a niche.finding the pattern we've needed but didn't know we needed.There are many prey animals(insects ,reptiles ect) and no one has exausted all the posabilities.In closing let me just say inventing a new fly and putting your name on it has no merit if it dosen't cacth fish.

[Sal Velinus 0]

Yes I think most on this website tinker with materials, patterns, etc. to create their "own" patterns. But in reality it is difficult to come up with things that others haven't already done, they might not have written about it or promoted them, but others have done it. I for one don't name "my" flies, even though most are at least a little different than theway most people tie them. The idea of protecting your patterns is simple to figure out; if you don't want people to steal them from you, don't advertise them. Otherwise you could copywrite a name of a fly, but not a pattern. The simple fact is that many of the standard patterns catch fish just as well or better than many of the new-age creations. Often people tie flies that don't work any better, and might even work less well, than traditional patterns just because they want to feel like they have something a little bit different from everyone else (which is fine, that's often what I do). People might think that these flies work better than standard patterns but often they probably don't. Many times as the tier gets better, the fisherman gets better without noticing, which creates the illusion that the flies work better than the standard generic bugs he fished when he was starting out.

 

Rambling there, but in short, do whatever makes you happy with your flies, that's what I do. Learn the qualities of different materials so that when you want a fly to have a certain characteristic you know what to use. Don't think that just because a famous tier used a certain material that it is the best material for the job, and don't beleive that his flies are any more effective than yours just because of his name. Finally, be aware that it has to be a pretty horrible fly to not eventually fool something as stupid as a fish.

[flytyingscotsman 0]

 

I might be off on this, but as far as I can see you really need some kind of

'store front' like say, a fly shop, to first popularize a new, effective fly pattern.

 

Customers buy the fly, try it, catch fish and the reputation is built from there.

 

Then, there are a couple of ways to go. An article in a fly fishing/tying magazine is one.

 

The commercial route is having your name on a fly that gets carried by Umpqua or Orvis

or similar - this is as close as you can get to a 'patent' in my opinion and is more than

likely the most lucrative.

 

You could of course protect that dynamite pattern from being 'ripped off' by keeping it secret ....

 

This is why I always take a minute or two to talk to the old geezers - they have to pass

on those secret patterns and techniques sooner or later, before it's too late !

 

 

 

[SteveGibson 0]

The late George Rose, who resided in Rotonda, Fla., and was one of my early mentors once told me in his crisp New Hampshire accent, "Steve, there are no new flies. There all variations on the same theme."

 

I believe him to this day.

[Guest Big E]

Lemme expand this a bit further since Orvis and the like were brought up. What stops the big commercial fly stores from surfing the pattern database here and copying someone's unique fly and selling it? Do people really trademark/patent/copyright (whichever it is) flies to stop this from happening?

 

The consensus so far seems to be that there are no new flys, just variations. What makes a fly unique enough to say its a new fly? How do you tell if its never been done before?

[JSzymczyk 0]

Lemme expand this a bit further since Orvis and the like were brought up. What stops the big commercial fly stores from surfing the pattern database here and copying someone's unique fly and selling it?

 

nothing.

 

Do people really trademark/patent/copyright (whichever it is) flies to stop this from happening?

 

sometimes, but from what I can tell, it's usually guides or people who are already attached in some form to the fly fishing industry. Shop owners, such as Clouser, etc.

 

 

What makes a fly unique enough to say its a new fly? How do you tell if its never been done before?

 

Nothing, and You Can't.

 

Last year I tied a deer hair bug modeled after a matchbox car. I caught a bass on it, then lost it in a tree. I thought it was fairly unique... but would anyone else in their right mind want a bass fly that looks like an oldsmobile? Probably not. Do I know that NOBODY ever did it before? Nope. Do I want to make another one? Not really... It cast horribly. But I caught a fish on it. And I would have caught that fish on any deer bug I cast to that spot.

 

In reality, it would not be worth my time, effort, bother, and money to try to copyright or patent a fly pattern... If I had a fishing related business it might be worth it, maybe not. I don't know. All the folks who tie are going to tie it anyhow, if it's good. Look at the "Clouser Deep Minnow" ... Even commercial companies who don't want to call them "Clouser" tie them and call them "Lead Eye Minnows"... "Lefty's Deceiver" has sort of fallen out of favor in the last decade or so and most times you just see them referred to as "Deceiver Style" or "Deceiver." The "Dahlberg Diver" is another one that comes to mind. Was Larry Dahlberg the first person to ever tie a deer bug that zipped underwater on the strip? Maybe, but I doubt it. However at the time, he was an established guide and well known public figure. Contrast those to this: Nobody has EVER (as far as I know...) said "I caught it on an olive Blessing's Woolly Bugger!" The Woolly Bugger is such a universally known fish catcher, but I'd bet the vast majority of fly fishers and tyers do not know who the style was (most likely) originated by. Even if you do somehow patent the fly or copyright a name, there is nothing to stop anyone from tying all they want, and nothing to stop commercial tyers from changing one tiny detail like thread color, and calling it something else.

 

I think if there is any real money to be made, it is in the hardware and soft-plastics arena. There are a hell of a lot more "regular" fishermen than fly fishermen. If you can get some guy in a loud shirt riding a $50K boat to win a bass tournament with a lure you made, you're set. Again, I don't think it happens much. You're already set because you're working for a lure company designing and tweaking existing patterns.

 

I think maybe the true value is: if 20 years from now 10 people are using it and they remember who originated the pattern, it was a great success.

 

[Guest Big E]

Although I wasn't even considering the money aspect...are you saying that every time Cabela's, Orvis, etc sells a Copper John that John Barr gets a cut?

[JSzymczyk 0]

I'm not really sure.... there is a member on here who invented "Todd's WiggleMinnow" and I believe I saw him write that he gets some money from Umpqua Feather Merchants for each one of them they tie and sell. Somehow he got them to produce the lure commercially and give him royalties. Hopefully he will read this and give everyone the straight scoop.

[stony 0]

I just tie flies and call them something like "Stony's Adams" or "Stony's Wulff" or a "Stony Bugger". Works for me.

[flytire 0]

Although I wasn't even considering the money aspect...are you saying that every time Cabela's, Orvis, etc sells a Copper John that John Barr gets a cut?

 

yes, but before you think youll be able to retire on the money you get, realize it is a mere pittance what he gets for his flies.

 

not many people are millionaires by tying flies.

 

[flytire 0]

If you do develop your own pattern, how do you 'protect' it if it gains noteriety?

 

why protect it. my reward would be the contribution to the fly tying world of a different pattern that catches fish.

 

the big names in the fly tying business are probably more satisfied that their creations are out there for the masses to use rather than being known as the guy that created the next best thing in fly tying only to put a copyright on it or to go out and get a patent.

 

if you study the "evil weevil" long enough and do internet searches youll probably find that its merely and adaptation or variation of another pattern. a bit of this pattern and a bit of that pattern.

[DancesWithHeadCement 0]

Most of us started tying because of one or two primary reasons; we thought it was going to be cheaper than buying them, or we needed something that we couldn't find in the traditional patterns at the store.

 

Making up your own patterns is the highest form of fly tying - combining your artistic nature with the limitations of the materials, liberally dosed with your understanding about what fish eat and what bugs do.

 

I have always thought of the creativity component being the truly fun part of tying - and the feeling you get when some fish eats something you've created is the reward.

 

On rare occasion the Fates align, and your invention is pure fish death. It will only happen a couple of times in your angling life, and you'll know it when the guy fishing next to you starts swearing, and asks " ...I been fishing all %$##@ day without a bite, what are you using?"

 

If you're a perverse SOB you'll say, " ... a piquant mixture of Owl butt feathers, dyed Puce - with a hairwing from a rutting deer's reproductive area..."

 

Instead, I just hand the fellow a half dozen, and hope to Christ they hold together if he catches a fish or two.

[Fred H. 0]

Heres a good example of what I said earlier.I found a need to immitate a shad fry.Right now the fry are in abundence and all speices of fish are gorgeing themselves on them.this is not a new occurance this has been going on forever.I scaled down a silver conehead wooley bugger and thru the years have done quite well with it.But along comes this new material called sili skin.and after experimenting I created a fly that looks more like the fry I was trying to immitate.To be honest it may not catch more fish than the wooley bugger.But it has already caught more fishermen.Everyone whom I shown it to while fishing has begged me for some including the tackle store owner.

 

I tied this fly so I could catch more fish.I hope it works better than others .Time will tell.Ther is only a small number of us that fly fish in SW La. if this encourages one person to get a flyrod and try this the fly is a huge sucess and that is all I could want.I just gave it a name not my name and I dont care who coppies it changes it or calls it their own.

 

I don't think your wrong for wanting noteriety.But I don't think its something you can force.Just try to tie better flies.They say that "necessity is the mother of invention "and I'll bet the next great pattern comes from someone trying to come up with a fly to fill a void we didn't even know existed.

[Guest]

The truth is that there is little that can be done to lock up a fly as your specific pattern. Any "improvement" and somebody copying it can call it something else.

 

I tie flies to fish with and for fun, often tying things for very specific situations or to solve a very specific problem. I don't care if someone copies my patterns from the database here or from my website. I'm always dreaming up something else or learning a new technique for tying. Growing in my abilities is more important to me than guarding patterns. I don't want my hobby to turn into a job (the reason that I've always turned down offers of the couple of local shops to tie for them). I've already got one ob and it is more than challenging enough.

 

Mark Delaney