RagingBull 0 Report post Posted February 9, 2011 I mainly got into fly tying for steelhead flies which mainly consisted of egg patterns. Im now getting into trout fly fishing and im starting to use more feathers in my patterns. While at a local fly shop the other day i was looking around and came across some "premium hackle". I was quite shocked when i saw the price tag of $70 for a clump of feathers. My question is, what makes these feathers "premium" and although i cant see dumping that kind of money on a clump of feathers are they worth considering? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
utyer 0 Report post Posted February 9, 2011 Premium dry fly hackle can run as much as $90 for the top grade necks from some growers. These rooster necks are custom bread by "small" breaders for the quality of the feathers. Most chickens raised in the US are white leghorns, some may be Rhode Island Reds (brown,) and some may be Plymoth Rock (Grizzly.) For commercial growers of either egg layers or food crops, they raise mostly hens. These chickens are bread for the meat, just the meat, and if they could raise them without feathers, they would. Most are not naturally grown, but artifically enhanced. To get a rooster with the kind of long glossy stiff hackles fly tyers seem to demand, takes at least 2 years. Most food chickens are killed and packaged in their first year. Free range chickens (and turkeys) for the table cost more than the "normal" chickens, so it is understandable that these custom bread roosters will cost more. There are plenty of much less expensive rooster necks available (Keogh for one,) and there are several shops selling "house" branded rooster necks and saddles for tying. These will still be in the 20 to 40 price range. If you want the range of colors that are necessary for dry fly tying, then you will eventually need to purchase some. First learn a little more about what you intend to tie, and ask questions about hackle quality and use. I do MOST of my dry flies with out hackle of any kind, but when I need hackle, I use mainly saddles from the premium growers. Fortunately, I have had my hackles for many years, and paid a lot less for most of them. I still find I need to purchase about 3 or 5 every year. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JSzymczyk 0 Report post Posted February 10, 2011 once you start tying, and you are able to use some premium hackles compared to cheap stuff, you will change your mind. On a genetic neck such as a Whiting Bronze grade, you will easily get a thousand flies from that "clump of feathers" even if you don't use the tiny small hackles on it. It is a bit hard to accept, but once you know what you want, you save a lot of money by purchasing a $70 neck or saddle. The quality of today's hackle is stupendous compared to even 25 years ago. Go to a shop if you can and compare a cheap chinese neck to a Whiting neck in your hands. The differences will be instantly obvious. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
keeper359 0 Report post Posted February 10, 2011 You may also want to look for half necks or the 100 saddle packs. The only disadvatage of those saddle packs is the hackles in one pack are for one size hook, unless you only tie in a narrow range of hook sizes then they'll do fine. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RagingBull 0 Report post Posted February 10, 2011 thanks for the info Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
perchjerker 0 Report post Posted February 10, 2011 The direct answer to you question is that the grade of a cape is based primarily on the overall number of feathers, what the smallest sizes are on the cape and their numbers, and the overall condition of the feathers; i.e., absence of broken feathers, all feathers complete in the molt maturation process (no blood feathers), etc. When I first started tying 40+ years ago, all we had available to us were basically imported necks and saddles that were imported from either China or India, and the skins were from birds that were killed for human consumption. The neck hackles were so short, you might have to use as many as three feathers to hackle a single dry fly; and the saddles weren't much better, if at all. With today's 'genetic hackle, it only takes one neck feather to hackle a dry fly; and some saddle hackle feathers are long enough to hackle three or four flies; or more. The Chinese and India birds were 'free ranging' birds, and their hackles could sometimes show evidence of fighting, etc. Today's 'genetic' hackle birds are raised in individual cages off the ground where they never have the opportunity to fight, and thus get their feathers damaged. Also, they are housed in very large buildings where they are protected from the elements; even to being heated in the winter and cooled with large fans in the summer, not unlike caged laying hens for egg production. These elaborate facilities are quite expensive; both to build, and to maintain and operate. Hence the high prices fro the products that come out of them. Incidentally, some very top grade capes can run as much as $125.00 per cape! However, unless you are planing on tying a lot of flies in the very small sizes, #22-28, they are a waste of money, as the cheaper grade capes have plenty of feathers in the #14-20 sizes, as well as larger sizes. Any good shopkeeper will tell you this. perchjerker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Johny Utah 0 Report post Posted February 10, 2011 The "expensive" capes and saddles, (especially whiting) Are not that expensive when you consider they have way more feathers on the skin and particularly with whiting the feathers are exceptionally long. Whiting also has a lot more hackle fibers per feather, thus you can tie more flies with just one feather, by needing far less turns of hackle. I can get usually 3-4 flies per feather.(fly size depending) You will also find with genetics that they are much stiffer. Keogh has some good hackle, but if you do your homework and look into what you get for your money, you will find whiting more appealing. I have tied with almost every brand name genetic hackle company, and as you can tell, Im bias to whiting. But only because i have experienced the others. I will say i do have some really nice capes i got off a fellow on ebay. The only way to fully convince yourself is to tie with a cheapo cape or saddle and then try a high grade neck or saddle. I guarantee you wont go back to the cheap. well not easily any way. Once you understand that the quality makes a difference and that the High price tag get you that and more feather per dollar. Plus as others have said you get tons of flies from just one. If its you tying for you, that $60 will last you a very long time. Whiting starter hackle deal is a great one. Stockard has it. You get 2 capes, or 2 saddles. Each is actually 2 halves, and they are different colors. The most commonly used colors. Stockard also now offers the pro grade capes. They are hard to tell from a bronze. Also Make sure you hunt down deals. You will be surprised sometimes. Good deals abound! Tight Ties Johnny U. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JSzymczyk 0 Report post Posted February 13, 2011 Stockard also now offers the pro grade capes. They are hard to tell from a bronze. another plus with the Pro Grade seems to be more very good dry fly hackle in true size 10 and even 8 for big Drakes and Hexes and stuff compared to the bronze grade (at least on the ones I have) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
perchjerker 0 Report post Posted February 13, 2011 To be the Devil's Advocate, there is one major shortcoming to the genetic feathers. The broad, nicely rounded tips on the capes that are so highly prized for hackle-tip upright wings have gone by the wayside. To get the highly desired broad, rounded tips for such wings, one has to resort to either Chinese or India necks. However, this shortcoming is of no consequence if you never tie hackle tip winged patterns. I am a PURIST, and my Adams dries MUST have hackle tip wings! perchjerker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JSzymczyk 0 Report post Posted February 15, 2011 To be the Devil's Advocate, there is one major shortcoming to the genetic feathers. The broad, nicely rounded tips on the capes that are so highly prized for hackle-tip upright wings have gone by the wayside. To get the highly desired broad, rounded tips for such wings, one has to resort to either Chinese or India necks. However, this shortcoming is of no consequence if you never tie hackle tip winged patterns. I am a PURIST, and my Adams dries MUST have hackle tip wings! perchjerker Hen feathers for that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JSzymczyk 0 Report post Posted February 15, 2011 To be the Devil's Advocate, there is one major shortcoming to the genetic feathers. The broad, nicely rounded tips on the capes that are so highly prized for hackle-tip upright wings have gone by the wayside. To get the highly desired broad, rounded tips for such wings, one has to resort to either Chinese or India necks. However, this shortcoming is of no consequence if you never tie hackle tip winged patterns. I am a PURIST, and my Adams dries MUST have hackle tip wings! perchjerker Hen feathers for that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
perchjerker 0 Report post Posted February 16, 2011 To be the Devil's Advocate, there is one major shortcoming to the genetic feathers. The broad, nicely rounded tips on the capes that are so highly prized for hackle-tip upright wings have gone by the wayside. To get the highly desired broad, rounded tips for such wings, one has to resort to either Chinese or India necks. However, this shortcoming is of no consequence if you never tie hackle tip winged patterns. I am a PURIST, and my Adams dries MUST have hackle tip wings! perchjerker Hen feathers for that. They are too soft and too webby for my taste. Just don't look right. (We all have our hangups!!) Gone are the days when one used two feathers to hackle a fly and wound up with two great tips for a pair of wings from the same two feathers. perchjerker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
