Hackle Substitute

[1st.YearTyer 0]

Let me start off by saying how excited I am to be a part of this site.It has been since February that my addiction to this

wonderful drug called FLYTYING started.I have been sporadically collecting tools and materials and books since then.Finding Feathers and Hair in the wild is for me the best that has happened so far.Makes me feel real caveman-ny,a little more attached to the true world.Building what I need with my hands is where I've evolved to in this life.I guess thats what I find so attractive about flytying.Alright thats who I am,a newbie to this all with some questions the books I have read don't answer.So here's the question-

 

Can Duck feathers (Teal,Wood,Mallard) be substituted for Partridge in say Soft Hackle flies or when a recipe calls for a Beard/Legs/Top Wing/etc.?Is there a difference in the barb stiffness or something?

 

I've only tyed 5 dozen chironimids so far (and some pike/walleye big flies).

 

I want to wait till hunting season opens to get a full Partridge skin along with my Deer/Elk/Moose/Antelope/Rabbit/Squirrel etc. rather than buying a little bag of randomness.

I've included photos of my addiction.The first is a couple weeks after I decided to try this activity (camp room outta town set-up) and the second is my room at home yesterday.And oh is it gonna grow!!I look forward to hearing back from everyone and maybe one day I'll be answering questions that other new guys ask.

 

Sincerely

 

TonyB.

[rstout 0]

Tony,

 

Fly tying is in the tyer. If you want to substitute a material, color, whatever, that is the choice of the tyer. Yes, duck feathers can be substituted and will work.

 

Experimentation is always fun.

 

Rob

[ikerajala 0]

Dear Tony,

I think the biggest difference between duck flank and partridge hackle is the width.Duck flank is so much wider.Not to say that if you have some tiny duck flank feathers its o.k. to use them.The pattern on duck flank feathers is a little different from partridge,so some purists would probably complaine.There are some killer patterns that use duck flank like the knudson spider ,or the reverse spider.These are sea run cutthroat flies.But Im sure they would work on other trout streams.Assuming you live near one.

,Isaac

[rockworm 0]

Welcome aboard Tony! It sounds like what you lack in material is fully balanced by your exuberance. As to your question... You will find duck feathers suitable for beards, legs, wings and even soft-hackle collars. But none will have the speckled appearance of partridge. Traditional dry fly wings are made from clumps of fibers from duck flank feathers. While traditional wet fly wings are made from sections of duck wing primary feathers. Legs and beards are commonly made using flank or back feathers. As for hackle: there are small feathers on the neck and on the leading edges of the wing suitable for tying soft-hackle flies. As you say, a complete skin is always preferable to those bags of mixed feathers. And a partridge skin is at the top of the list for wet flies.

[utyer 0]

First, welcome to the addiction, I have been addicted over 45 years, but I can quit any time, if I have to, I guess. As to your question about using duck (flank feathers?) in place of partridge. The duck flanks can and are often used for wings on wets and dry flies. Many traditional patterns ,call for them. They can also be used for tailing on both wet and dry flies. Beard hackles and legs on wets, nymphs can also be made from duck flank and other feathers. For Soft hackles, that call for partridge, they will in most cases be too long to wind at the head and be the proper length. You could tie them in along the shank with the proper length extending out past the eye, and then fold them back after the body is finished. The head wraps would hold them in place. The trick is to use just a few fibers (12 or so,) and distribute them evenly around the shank as they are tied in and then back. I use hen pheasaant on a lot of soft hackles, and there are a lot of the breast feathers that are small enough. I also use pheasant as soft hackles on larger wet fly patterns.

 

One very common use for the duck flank feathers is on the soft hackle streamer. This is a Jack Gartside pattern that winds marabou around the hook first then a couple of turns of a duck flank feather for the collar.

 

There are few rules in fly tying, that can't be broken. If you can tie it to a hook and the results catch fish, your doing just fine. Feel free to substitute materials, and let the fish be the judge.

 

Good luck with your hunting, most all of the game you bag will have uses. Don't overlook Turkey, and Pheasant, both these birds have many usefull feathers.

[flytire 0]

Can Duck feathers (Teal,Wood,Mallard) be substituted for Partridge in say Soft Hackle flies or when a recipe calls for a Beard/Legs/Top Wing/etc.?Is there a difference in the barb stiffness or something?

 

based on the question above - yes, duck feathers can be substituted for partridge and many othe bird feathers

[1st.YearTyer 0]

Just got back from fishing a local stillwater and was very pleased to see I had responses to my question.You all answered my question to my satisfaction.So I guess it comes down to what type of tyer I want to become.I consider myself a Tradionalist when it comes to Flyfishing,as in I don't use a fly that doesn't imitate something that will hatch into a winged insect(no foam).I really like the looks of the "anatomical" patterns so I'm going to head in that direction with my O.C.D !

By the way it took me some 10 minutes to figure out how to respond on this forum just now,I can't imagine trying to find info. I want searching through all the posts on this site.I dislike computers very much.

 

 

Now I have another question about Turkey feathers----Do any of you guys spray them with clear spray paint to hold them together for wing casings?What do you use?When I tie mine in they go all ugly and seperate.

[rockworm 0]

When I want to use cut turkey quill (as for stonefly nymph wingcases) I treat the feathers with Krylon spray acrylic fixative before I start cutting out the segments.

[mybadhabit 0]

Just got back from fishing a local stillwater and was very pleased to see I had responses to my question.You all answered my question to my satisfaction.So I guess it comes down to what type of tyer I want to become.I consider myself a Tradionalist when it comes to Flyfishing,as in I don't use a fly that doesn't imitate something that will hatch into a winged insect(no foam).I really like the looks of the "anatomical" patterns so I'm going to head in that direction with my O.C.D !

By the way it took me some 10 minutes to figure out how to respond on this forum just now,I can't imagine trying to find info. I want searching through all the posts on this site.I dislike computers very much.

 

 

Now I have another question about Turkey feathers----Do any of you guys spray them with clear spray paint to hold them together for wing casings?What do you use?When I tie mine in they go all ugly and seperate.

 

 

Softex works well to make such casings, just brush a little on and let dry then you can do just about anything with it.

[flytire 0]

Now I have another question about Turkey feathers----Do any of you guys spray them with clear spray paint to hold them together for wing casings?What do you use?When I tie mine in they go all ugly and seperate.

 

some tyers use a spray fixative some tyers dont, some tyers use head cement some tyers dont. give both ways a try and use whats best for you

[perchjerker 0]

There is a profound advantage to spraying with the previously mentioned Krylon product; which I have used for 40+ years. You can coat both sides of an entire feather in the time it takes to coat a single slip with head cement. Been there and done that!

 

perchjerker

[perchjerker 0]

There is a profound advantage to spraying with the previously mentioned Krylon product; which I have used for 40+ years. You can coat both sides of an entire feather in the time it takes to coat a single slip with head cement. Been there and done that!

 

Just be sure to do the spraying in a well ventilated place, like outdoors, as the fumes are horrible!

 

perchjerker

[1st.YearTyer 0]

Okay I just sprayed a couple feathers with the krylon and later tonight I'm gonna give a tie a try and see how it goes.Thank-you to all who shared their knowledge.

 

Do you think the fish will smell the Krylon? lol

[1st.YearTyer 0]

Okay here is my FIRST stonefly tie.I like it a lot.Maybe there is somewhere else I am suppose to post this but I'm gonna show it on this thread.I welcome everyones critiques/critisisms/overwelming accolades!I even mixed my own dubbing combination (I only have 4 colors so far)with a coffee grinder.That thing is awesome.Highly recommend them.

[utyer 0]

Ok, you have a good start, but there are some things you can work on. First the hook. It looks like a large standard shank lenght hook, get some 3 or better still 4 extra long shank hooks. Stonefly nymphs are very elongated. You want to make a segmented abdomen with 5 to 7 turns of wire through the dubbing. Stonefly nymphs also have two sets of wing cases, not that you really need to imitate them both, but many people do. Your antenniae should be tied in by the butts so the materials taper toward the tips.

 

I can't tell, are you using bead chain eyes? It looks like three beads or bead chain sets. Lead free wire would weight the fly just as well and make a (in my opinion,) a better looking nymph. In any case, you do want them to be right on the bottom, so weight is in most cases necessary.

 

Your dubbing mix is a fine blend, and a good color for the golden stone nymphs. The addition of a copper wire rib will add some segmentation. See if you can mix up a DARK brown (almost black,) blend. I simply use wool for most of my stonefly nymph bodies, its quicker than dubbing, and my copper wire is all salvaged from electrical and computer cords. Most house hold appliances have a stranded wire, that makes excellent ribbing material. Broken applieances are most often discarded WITH the cord, you can cut a few off, and have a very good supply of wire ribbing.