Hackle Help

[BennyB 0]

Okay so if this is already posted I apologies , I couldn't find it.

 

I am relatively new to fly tying , been doing it about 6 months.

I have gotten good at doing the palmated style hackle on wooly buggers. When i try things like parachutes and Adams (stuff with small nice looking collars) i can't ever get my hackle to sit side by side it just kindof bunches all together and looks like crap.

I am using the cheap Indian hen hackle from J. Stockton , what kind of hackle would be best for dry flys like that , I don't want to spend a ton of money (that's why I bought the $5 hen hackle) lol.

 

And also any tips to help it look better?

Last question ..... Should I use legit fly tying hooks or are regular bait hooks okay ?

 

Thanks

[tidewaterfly 0]

For dry flies, one of your problems with the hen hackle is it's too soft. Dry fly hackle needs to be stiff to support the fly on the water. Those cheap hen necks are good for wet flies & nymphs, but not dry flies. Good dry hackle is not cheap, but India rooster necks can be used. They just won't be as good as genetically raised hackle such as Whiting or a few other brands produce, but they will be less costly. India necks unfortunately also will not have the range of feather sizes that a good genetically raised neck will have, nor the length. You might consider something like Whiting's 100 packs in the sizes you're tying. You should also use proper hooks. You can use baitholders for sinking flies, but not a good choice for dry flies, as the wire will be too heavy & cause them to sink. Dry fly hooks are lighter wire than other styles to reduce the weight & allow them to float more easily. Try Allens Fly Fishing for hooks, they have a good selection & they're not as costly as some other sources. You should eventually use the proper hackle & hooks, and that will aid in making the flies look better and likely reduce frustration. However, practicing your tying should also.

 

As far as wrapping the hackle collars on dry flies, first get the correct type of hackle, then basically you're wrapping just as you would on a bugger, but the wraps are all together & there will be less of them. Parachutes are different, as the hackle is wrapped around the wing material not the hook shank.

 

You may also be twisting those hackles as you wrap, which will cause the fibers to bunch up. Try to wrap without twisting the hackle.

 

Hope this helps!

[eric_sthjrsy 0]

tide water that definitely help me considering I will be attempting my first dry fly today and I bought the materials for an Adams. I have read a lot on this site and GOOGLE

about this and while some opinions vary, most will say for beginners like us (Benny you don't need a high grade hackle to start out. Of Course, like tide water says you will

need something different than what you have, you are not going to need the most expensive stuff. I think J Stockard sells something from Whiting that is made for beginners. It is 2 half capes in 2 different colors that is un graded. The reviews I have read say that it would be about the same grade as a bronze whiting cape. The price is pretty good to

comparatively. This would be my suggestion..... from what my local shop told me (In Germany where everything is super expensive)... try and get the grizzly and brown cape combo

because most dry flies will call for there. I bought that combo from my shop for 65 Euro about 80 dollars for a bronze rated cape) and then found what I am telling you about on J Stockard for a lot cheaper....

[utyer 0]

First of all it is a "palmered" hackle not "palmated" hackle, and J Stockard not "Stockton"..

 

Now as other have stated, you will want to invest in some rooster capes, and saddle patches for tying dry flies. These don't have to be the most expensive capes out there, but they should be good quality. The introduction of the Metz and Whiting hackles, has greatly improved the quality and availability of dry fly hackle. Years ago, the only option were necks from chickens which were what we would call "free range." The feathers on the birds was not the object, they were a by product of the meat. The hackles when you found good quality rooster hackles were much shorter than the modern hackles. They would work out pretty well for sizes larger than a 12 or 14, but as you searched the neck for size 18, and 20 hackles they got very short.

 

A modern dry fly quality neck, or saddle is bread for the quality of the feathers. Meat is the by product in these birds. The colors, barb length and feather length are qualities bread into the birds over generations. The hackles are MUCH longer, have sufficient stiffness, and consistent barb length. The modern saddle hackle can be 15" long and have the barb length necessary to tie a size 18 or 20. Most saddle patches will contain hundreds of feathers, but the size range is usually limited to about 4 sizes. Each feather will be long enough to tie 6 or 8 flies.

 

The feathers from the necks on these birds will be quite a bit longer than most Chinese or Indian necks. The hackles will be much longer as well. Even the small sizes well be long enough to easily work with. The necks will offer a full range of sizes from bigger than you need, to a small as you can tie.

 

There are dozens of suppliers, and they are well worth the investment if you are going to be tying hackled dry flies.

[BennyB 0]

Thanks for all the help, I think I will look into the whiting 100 pack or half capes.

 

and Utyer thanks spell check doesn't like fly tying terms sorry.

[utyer 0]

Spell check will kick out palmering, or palmered, and stacker, and a lot of other common fly tying terms.

[thursthouse 0]

Benny B, I am a relatively new tyer myself (just under a year) and have found that while capes can be expensive, you will get a LOT of use out of them. I haven't come close to stripping an entire cape, so the upfront cost might be high, but it will last you a long time. Similar to Eric, I bought a Whiting Introduciton pack that has a half cape brown, half cape grizzly, half cape dun, and half cape and black. I think I got mine for $65 but again - you'll get a ton of flies out of it. I did find that starting out I spent a lot of money up front (my new passion, my personal preference). I found I was spending a decent amount each time I went to the fly shop. Now that I have a decent amount of materials I find myself only going for small priced items for specific patterns (and to bs with the guys at the shop and get some tips). The Whiting Intro pack should cover most of your dry fly hackle needs.

[Sundance 0]

Most beginners at any activity buy the cheap stuff. Understandable, but not the best way to go. High quality hackles are easier to tie with, make better flies, and will make your day. Moreover, you will spend as much or more on cheap stuff to get the same number of flies a good neck or saddle will provide. Sorry, but I do not agree with the comment above about India hackles being useful - at least for dry flies. They twist, float poorly and tie crappy flies unless you are willing to fiddle away your tying time making them work.

 

Take some care when buying capes or saddles. Cupped feathers are nearly impossible to tie with the dull side forward on a dry fly. Make sure the barbs come straight out from the rachis. Some capes are useless because the hackles will twist when you tie no matter what you do. I have found that frequently with Metz hackles. If you buy one and it does that, take it back because there is no remedy. Whiting hackles are almost always high quality and wrap correctly. The smaller the fly you are tying the more important good quality hackle can be.

 

Consider saddles rather than capes if you tie a lot of flies the same size. With a neck you can go through all of one size pretty quickly. Two or three good whiting saddle hackles will tie more or of a given size than and entire neck. Since I tie mostly 16s and 18s I get whiting saddles that tie those sizes and get hundreds of flies from each saddle.

 

Necks are only worth it if you tie a lot of different sizes and not too many of any one size.