Vise question

[djtrout 0]

Recently retired from a lot of years as a business analyst (yeah, the pic is old), I've had a lot of experience advising clients on requirements for IT systems and other types of projects. I learned that people tend to talk a lot about "quality" from the product manufacturer's perspective, without due regard for their actual needs for a product, which invariably would result in them paying way more than required to achieve the needed capability.

 

The function of a fly tying vise is rudimentary - to securely hold a hook. Beyond that we may need to consider the range of hook sizes we want to be able to use and maybe be able to view a fly in progress from various angles. Beyond that, it's pretty wide-open as to what any individual might want. This just isn't painting a picture for major investment on par with my car (but I'm cheap there, too - being requirement rather than market driven).

Here's an excerpt from a catalog description of a vise (I bought 15 years ago for I think around $50, it goes for $199 now): "The most affordable high quality vise found anywhere. Small yet durable, made of the finest materials. Notch- lock cam, famous hook holding capability and 360 degree rotation." It's just a basic vise. Calling it the most affordable high quality vise ... quality according to whom? What exactly makes it "quality"? There's not a lot of steel involved here. Just what is it about "finest" material that I am really interested in or care about? I'm not manufacturing the hooks, just holding them for a minute or 15! I can't exert more pressure than thread will allow before breaking, so ......... I also don't see many vises at any price out there that won't hold a hook, though perhaps not "famously."

 

I wanted a vise that was tight - meaning when I rotate it doesn't wobble. I wanted the jaws to be durable, the mechanism not prone to failure after a few thousand ties. I contend that most vises, including the under $100 vises, give me that.

 

It comes down to my comfort, what feels good to me to use. I haven't seen a "beginner" vise yet that the best of us on this forum couldn't use to tie first class stuff. It's just a matter of where we want to go with this art.

 

$100 can be a lot of money for some folks. If I'm advising a beginner, I 1) let him use one of my vises for a while, 2) see what he can pick up used to experiment with, or 3) invest in a sub-$100 vise - you can get a good one for $50 plus or minus. The important thing is to just start tying so you can figure out what you require from your equipment, then when you know this you can determine your budget point. Budget is determining your functional need (requirements) and identifying a baseline vise that meets these needs, then deciding how many bells and whistles (accessories, finish, adjustability, etc.) you are willing to pay for (i.e., not "need" but want).

 

True rotary or not? I like mine; I also like my non-true rotary. Simple fact is the rotary feels more friendly to me, and I do use the rotary feature often. That's trial and error to develop a personal preference and habit, not quality. Both handle nicely the range of hooks I use, both will tie anything I do just fine.

 

I will treat myself or talk my wife into treating me, in a future Christmas by acquiring a $500 plus vise. This will be a pleasure to use, but pure hedonism. As long as I see it for what it is I'll keep my perspective! I said above that the rotary feature is preference after trial and error though I like it. It is not a quality requirement for me because when I shop for the vise of my dreams - I'm not sure rotary will be a requirement. I will probably stick with it, and I have eyes on Renzetti's top of line as well as the Jvise, but I may go a completely different direction. I may come to my senses too and forget about it ... it is not a "requirement" that I have a vise that costs more than $500.

 

I indulge my passion for the sport and craft, but I like to think I see the marketing hype for what it is. I enjoy the hype, but do not allow myself to be particularly informed by it. I focus on what I really need to tie my flies, and for the time being, for the least cost possible.

 

Remember, vendors have a vested interest in convincing you that you need more, and setting market expectations that things should cost more.​

[PJ2 0]

Recently retired from a lot of years as a business analyst (yeah, the pic is old), I've had a lot of experience advising clients on requirements for IT systems and other types of projects. I learned that people tend to talk a lot about "quality" from the product manufacturer's perspective, without due regard for their actual needs for a product, which invariably would result in them paying way more than required to achieve the needed capability.

 

The function of a fly tying vise is rudimentary - to securely hold a hook. Beyond that we may need to consider the range of hook sizes we want to be able to use and maybe be able to view a fly in progress from various angles. Beyond that, it's pretty wide-open as to what any individual might want. This just isn't painting a picture for major investment on par with my car (but I'm cheap there, too - being requirement rather than market driven).

 

Here's an excerpt from a catalog description of a vise (I bought 15 years ago for I think around $50, it goes for $199 now): "The most affordable high quality vise found anywhere. Small yet durable, made of the finest materials. Notch- lock cam, famous hook holding capability and 360 degree rotation." It's just a basic vise. Calling it the most affordable high quality vise ... quality according to whom? What exactly makes it "quality"? There's not a lot of steel involved here. Just what is it about "finest" material that I am really interested in or care about? I'm not manufacturing the hooks, just holding them for a minute or 15! I can't exert more pressure than thread will allow before breaking, so ......... I also don't see many vises at any price out there that won't hold a hook, though perhaps not "famously."

 

I wanted a vise that was tight - meaning when I rotate it doesn't wobble. I wanted the jaws to be durable, the mechanism not prone to failure after a few thousand ties. I contend that most vises, including the under $100 vises, give me that.

 

It comes down to my comfort, what feels good to me to use. I haven't seen a "beginner" vise yet that the best of us on this forum couldn't use to tie first class stuff. It's just a matter of where we want to go with this art.

 

$100 can be a lot of money for some folks. If I'm advising a beginner, I 1) let him use one of my vises for a while, 2) see what he can pick up used to experiment with, or 3) invest in a sub-$100 vise - you can get a good one for $50 plus or minus. The important thing is to just start tying so you can figure out what you require from your equipment, then when you know this you can determine your budget point. Budget is determining your functional need (requirements) and identifying a baseline vise that meets these needs, then deciding how many bells and whistles (accessories, finish, adjustability, etc.) you are willing to pay for (i.e., not "need" but want).

 

True rotary or not? I like mine; I also like my non-true rotary. Simple fact is the rotary feels more friendly to me, and I do use the rotary feature often. That's trial and error to develop a personal preference and habit, not quality. Both handle nicely the range of hooks I use, both will tie anything I do just fine.

 

I will treat myself or talk my wife into treating me, in a future Christmas by acquiring a $500 plus vise. This will be a pleasure to use, but pure hedonism. As long as I see it for what it is I'll keep my perspective! I said above that the rotary feature is preference after trial and error though I like it. It is not a quality requirement for me because when I shop for the vise of my dreams - I'm not sure rotary will be a requirement. I will probably stick with it, and I have eyes on Renzetti's top of line as well as the Jvise, but I may go a completely different direction. I may come to my senses too and forget about it ... it is not a "requirement" that I have a vise that costs more than $500.

 

I indulge my passion for the sport and craft, but I like to think I see the marketing hype for what it is. I enjoy the hype, but do not allow myself to be particularly informed by it. I focus on what I really need to tie my flies, and for the time being, for the least cost possible.

 

Remember, vendors have a vested interest in convincing you that you need more, and setting market expectations that things should cost more.​

 

Ill let you know about thr Renzetti Master's vice. I should have it by Monday.....

[djtrout 0]

PJ, yeah we're talkin now!

[Roland58 0]

I have a $14.99 Super AA vise. No amount of graphite and grease in the world could make this thing operate smoothly. It will hold a hook, but, that's about it.

 

Now, where is that guy that was looking for someone worthy????

[Dewey.sbag 0]

Hi Ran

I've only been tying for just over a year, I started with a fixed vice and was given a Renzetti Traveller (Rotating Vise) for Christmas 2014. My flies have improved outta sight. I use the rotating function all the time, I just put a hitch inthe thread and stand it to one side, it allows me to tie hackle, herl, dubbing, with ease. Its perfect when finishing flies and adding colouyr with markers or adding cement and UV when you can rotate and get to the underside of the fly so easily.

 

Thats my experience

 

dewey

www.donwhiteman.com

[Poopdeck 0]

I have a rotary but rarely ever use the rotary function. Personally I think it's funny when I'm watching a tying video and the star is sitting there spinning his vice rather then wrapping the material around the hook. I find it just as simple to just wrap the material around the hook. Having a fixed and a rotary I can honestly say that there will be no improvement in your flies because of the vise. Small flies are just hard to see.

 

But,,,,,,,, if you want one go get one. Everybody loves a new toy.

[Dave G. 0]

I really like a rotating feature and preferably on center for wrapping tinsel bodies and floss bodies. Especially floss, because it doesn't get twisted into a rope but stays as floss. Same with thread bodies. I know for decades I did without rotary, cut a piece of floss off the spool and hand wrap etc. It can be done, of course it can, but the rotary function just makes for a smooth transition once you are used to it.. And spinning chenille ropes from dubbing or peacock herl is a favorite on a rotary for me.touching turn wire or stem bodies goes better too , For Me anyway. To each there own for sure.

 

I still think the Anvil Apex from Goduster offers a heck of a bang for the buck !