Turned up hook eyes

[Adventure568 0]

I have a bunch of hooks with turned up eyes I got from a set. They are the perfect size to tie the patterns I want(wooly buggers, autumn splendors) will the turned up eye affect how the flies perform? I don't have a lot of regular down eye hooks and are wondering if the up turned eye hooks will do the job. Also, why are the eyes turned up? Any advice is appreciated

 

Thanks

[whatfly 0]

Short answer, "no". For a long answer, use the search function. Lots of past threads on this topic.

[Piker20 0]

http://www.flytyingforum.com/index.php?showtopic=70366&view=&hl=&fromsearch=1

[mikechell 0]

This is strictly conjecture ... based on the science of force and reaction.

Somewhere in the history of hooks, someone tried to make hooks "behave" in predictable ways. By angling the eye up or down, the hook should, when responding to the drag of a line it's tied to, "roll" so that the eye is pointed at the line.

This, taken to it's extreme, is why jig hooks have the offset eye, to make it ride hook point up.

 

Again, I am just putting this forward as a theory for the angles of eyes on hooks. Makes sense to me, so I ramble.

 

 

 

To answer your question, though, Adventure ... yes, you can tie any fly on any hook and catch fish. It might not be "perfect" ... but it'll work just fine.

[Adventure568 0]

Thanks mikechell really helped

[Stevester 0]

I will disagree with some of the above. Your can use an up eye hook for a wooly bugger and other streamer type flies but I would suggest that you use a loop knot to connect it to your leader. I have used the Uni-knot successfully for some time. As an aside, look at any Atlantic salmon flies, they are almost always tied on up-eyed hooks.

 

Steve

[FlaFly 0]

I was about to make the same suggestion... if you pass the tippet through the eye, then wrap around the hook shank, and thence back out through the eye to join itself, then your vector of force (high school physics) would be aligned with the shank. I don't know how big your flies will be, but you can insert a loop through the eye and then pass it over the entire bug. Maybe Mike can draw it for me.

[mikechell 0]

There are tons of pictures online. Type in "perfection loop" or Fly fishing knots ... then click on "images" and see what comes up.

[SilverCreek 0]

I was about to make the same suggestion... if you pass the tippet through the eye, then wrap around the hook shank, and thence back out through the eye to join itself, then your vector of force (high school physics) would be aligned with the shank. I don't know how big your flies will be, but you can insert a loop through the eye and then pass it over the entire bug. Maybe Mike can draw it for me.

 

There are TWO ways to interpret your statement.

 

The first is that the vector changes its orientation to align with the hook shank. The second is that the hook shank changes its orientation to align with the vector. The second statement is true and not the first. It is the hook that changes its orientation and not the vector. The way you arranged your statement can imply the opposite

 

Regardless of the eye position a standard knot like a clinch knot will allow the shank of the hook to line up with the direction of pull. The alignment with an offset hook eye will offset the shank by the amount of the offset so it is not in DIRECT LINE but PARALLEL. The offset is so slight that there is little if any advantage to the direction of offset.

 

(Mike, in your illustration, regardless of the angle of pull and the angle of the hook eye, the shank will line up with the direction of pull)

 

Exceptions are special knots such as the riffling hitch that are used to cause the fly to create a wake when retrieved.

 

The reason Salmon flies have an up eye is TRADITION. They just look wrong when tied with a down or straight eye hook. It is not because the up eye catches more fish.

 

I don't know if this is a fact but possibly the popularity of offset (down or up) eyes hooks is because of the popularity or the Turle knot in England during the "golden age" of fly fishing. Turle was a contemporary of Halford.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turle_knot

[mikechell 0]

 

(Mike, in your illustration, regardless of the angle of pull and the angle of the hook eye, the shank will line up with the direction of pull)

 

I'm not talking about the hook set or the "pull". I agree with your statements, but what I am showing in the pictures are the orientation of the fly to the line as the fly sinks. Since we all let a fly sink, or drift on a slack line, at some time, the eye orientation should have an effect on the hook's orientation.

A floating fly, eye orientation doesn't matter. I fast moving "stripping" of the fly, eye orientation doesn't matter, too much. Hookset, eye orientation doesn't matter. While letting the fly fall naturally, the drag on the weight of the fly ... I believe, will turn the hook.

[FlaFly 0]

What you say makes sense to me if the eye is either inline, or turned up (as per the question). Even though the line may tend to pull up slightly, the weight of the hook/fly would keep it parallel. Seems like if the eye is turned down however, the line would tend to pull the hook down slightly. What force then would keep the hook parallel to the line? I realize that the distance between the shank and the front of the eye is negligible, and the question is pretty much academic.

[SilverCreek 0]

What you say makes sense to me if the eye is either inline, or turned up (as per the question). Even though the line may tend to pull up slightly, the weight of the hook/fly would keep it parallel. Seems like if the eye is turned down however, the line would tend to pull the hook down slightly. What force then would keep the hook parallel to the line? I realize that the distance between the shank and the front of the eye is negligible, and the question is pretty much academic.

 

I agree.

 

Basically any offset of the hook eye acts as a lever arm on the body/shank/bend of the hooks. The offset of an up or downturned eye is so short relative to the length of the hook shank that there is very little effective lever compared to the straight eye on a hook.

 

An example is a pry bar. Try to move the body of the pry bar lying on the floor by pushing on the short angled end and it is very difficult because the mass of the entire length of the bar resists movement.

 

A hook is even harder because the bend of the hook places the greatest mass of the hook opposite the hook eye. The hook mass at the end of the hooks pulling down on the shank and it has the advantage of the long lever arm of the hook shank vs the short lever arm of the offset up hook eye in the example below.

 

 

 

 

 

Any force on an offset hook eye has very little "lever" advantage over just a straight eye because the offset is so small.

 

It is weight/mass distribution along the hook that determines how the hook/fly/lure will sink more that the hook eye angle.

 

Consider that a jig with a mass of lead at the form will sink head down regardless of whether the hook eye is up, down, straight or sideways. Mass distribution trumps hook eye angle every time.

 

Added note: It rained another inch last night added to the previous 2 days of rain and I have no fishing. So here I sit thinking about offset hook eyes. Lord help me get out fishing soon, please. Amen

 

Someone, anyone, please post a picture of a trout because I have forgotten what they look like.

[mikechell 0]

 

 

They said they're missing you, too.

[SilverCreek 0]

Thanks Mike.

 

That trout looks worried. My trout give me attitude.