Getting very frustrated!! Need some tips..

[c-denby 0]

hey everyone,

 

Over the years I have avoided tying many of the small fly patterns especially when it called for peacock herl.. The only way I would tie a fly using it would be to grind up some herl and touch dub it..

 

Well today, I attempted a pattern and hoped that I could overcome my fear of tying with herl... Sooo after about 2 hours and many many bad words, I'm still only on the second fly body...

 

No matter how slow or lightly I wrap, the herl breaks or if I try hackle pliers, the herl slips out of the jaws or breaks at the jaws.. (I've tried 3 different styles of hackle pliers)

I have tried strung peacock herl, herl from an eye feather, and even went to my neighbor who raises peacocks and got some freshly pulled peacock eyes because I thought maybe the stuff I had was old and brittle. Well I'm just not having much luck. I really want to figure this out so that I can tie some of these patterns that I would normally have just ignored or bought from someone..

 

Any hints or tips for working with peacock herl??

 

Cheers

Chris

[smallieFanatic 0]

Are you using only one strand at a time?

[Horseshoes 0]

I'm not sure, I don't have a problem wrapping the herl. Maybe your just too strong (whoa! ego whoa!) :flex: .

You know, pulling too hard? yes...no?

I have to wrap steadily, sometimes I run my finger along the previous wrap just incase it slipped. That way it wouldn't all unravel. Hope this helps.

 

 

OH and the touch dubbing with the herl is a great idea. I touch with silk and wool.

[Firetiger 0]

Try using no more than one or two fibres. Avoid the very tips - they are too brittle, tie in about 2/3 rds of the herl length. Dampen the herls a bit (I use my saliva) when tying. Counter rib the finished body with a thread or wire - that way you limit damage to the finished fly if a trout's teeth break a strand on the finished fly. Rotary vice helps to apply even pressure on the herl.

 

[fishabuoy 0]

Hey Chris-

 

Peacock can be maddeningly fragile - I've experienced your frustration more times than I care to admit.

 

A few years back, I don't remember where, but I read an article on tying with it, and the author suggested to use a dubbing loop to strengthen the herl. Since I've done this, my success rate with it not slipping or breaking has vastly improved. Basically I throw a loop of thread in front of the herl where I'm going to start palmering or "hackling" with it, twist the herl and thread together a couple times, wrap forward (or wherever your pattern calls for) and secure with a couple wraps and - viola!

 

You can use your existing tying thread, or I have even tied on with a second bobbin of finer thread if the main bobbin is wrapping with thread too heavy for the application. Some people go a step further and wrap the individual herl strands through the dubbing loop, and while it definitely would make things stronger, I find it unnecessary as twisting it with the thread will strengthen it plenty for most applications.

 

Peacock is a favorite material of mine. I learned to tie from reading Randall Kaufman's books (Tying Dry Flies, and Tying Nymphs), and he talks about peacock being "magical" in it's properties, and I would have to agree, I've never used a pattern that has peacock that wasn't effective.

 

hope that helps-

Bob V

[whatfly 0]

As fishabuoy suggests, you can wrap it around the tying thread, after either trimming off the tips or the butts, depending on which way you tie it in. I personally prefer using a full dubbing loop (tie herl in, double the thread in a loop, twist herl & thread together to make a rope). I would mention, however, if you have herl that breaks very easily, it may well be that the material has dried out. There are many solutions but quickest in my mind is chuck the herl and get some fresh stuff. YMMV.

[flyguys 0]

i only use one or two strands and i tie in about an eyelenght back the meaty part of the herl then wrap the tip will break off easy as pie

[Stippled Popper 0]

Using thread to create a dubbing loop is a good idea.

 

Sometimes I also take three long strands of herl and braid them together into a rope and wrap it

around for a thorax. The hackle wraps in front seem to offer an extra bit of protection.

[flytire 0]

use 1 or more herls

 

even the herls by the butts, not the tips

 

trim off the butts about 1 to 1 1/4 inches

 

tie in the herls by the butts, not the tips (forget about the traditional tie in by the tips) dont worry, they will look ok

 

wrap herls tightly, but not enough to break them. if they break then you wrapped too tight

[Jaydub 0]

Peacock herl is very fragile. Here is a quick way to tie a herl body reinforced with thread. This makes a body much more resistent to trout teeth than herl alone and is pretty easy once you get the hang of it.

 

Take about three or four herls and cut off the very tips. This lines up the ends and gets rid of the weakest part.

 

Tie in the ends you just cut.

 

Pull enough thread out of your bobbin so it's an inch or two longer than the herls.

 

Wrap the herls counterclockwise around the thread three or four times.

 

Grab the other ends of the herl and the thread together between your thumb and forefinger.

 

Wrap the herl and thread together. As you wrap, the herl will continue to twist around the thread.

 

When you reach the tie off point, untwist the herl from the thread and tie it off.

[rockworm 0]

If your herl is breaking off at the hackle jaws you are tying in the wrong end! You really want to tye your peacock herl in by its tips. BUT...the tips are very fragile. So you want to first of all align your herls and cut the bottom inch or two. Then tye the tips in. Do not use hackle pliers yet!. Wrap the herls around the hook shank once or thrice using only your fingers. Then attach your hackle pliers, twist the herls and continue (gently.)

 

No matter how many times you have done this, one of the herls will break once in a while. Don't sweat it. Just patiently unwind the herl and start over. You must learn to be gentle- especially as you pass under the hook shank where the weight of the pliers and your fingers exert the most tension on the herls. Once you have one or two turns wrapped and your herl is twisted, breaking is less likely. But you must always be gentle.

[JSzymczyk 0]

I tie in 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, strands of herl by their tip ends, after I even them AT the the butt ends and trim the tips even. I whip in a loop of tying thread, then cut it off so I have a thread mixed in with the herl. I trim the loose butt ends of the herl to where they are usable. Then grab all the herl and the thread strand with hackle pliers. Spin the hackle pliers in your fingers under slight tension. THE HERL NEAR THE FLY will twist up sooner than the rest. It will form a nice full chenille-like rope. The thread strand adds mucho strength. Wrap what you need or until you need to twist some more. For a thorax or wet fly body, no problem. For a streamer body like an Edson Tiger, it is a little harder to make it look nice.

 

The key is twisting a strand of thread in with the herl. DON'T try to twist it really tight, just tight enough.

[jfinn 0]

I've never experienced theses problems with peacock herl, when i was first starting I had a video from Bass pro and it said to tie the hackle in like normal but to avoid breaking it when wrapping hand it from hand to hand and lightly grab the herl enough so it doesn't unwind but loose enough for it to slide through your fingers until you hand it of to the other hand. I do this all the time have never broke off herl when tying. Even when I tie on a rotary vise i do the same it hasn't failed me.

[Steve P 0]

Spin it on thread as shown above... or just put it in a dubbing loop and spin that.

 

Steve

[TheCream 0]

use 1 or more herls

 

even the herls by the butts, not the tips

 

trim off the butts about 1 to 1 1/4 inches

 

tie in the herls by the butts, not the tips (forget about the traditional tie in by the tips) dont worry, they will look ok

 

wrap herls tightly, but not enough to break them. if they break then you wrapped too tight

 

That's basically what I do, too. I have more problems with breakage when wrapping one strand, multiple strands work better for me. I also prefer to wrap with the rotary function of a vise, I think it's easier to maintain steady pressure on the herl that way.