Popper collar help

[Franky6767 0]

Hello all...new here and seems like a really nice site. Thought perhaps someone could help me out a bit. Guess I've been making a few foam hoppers, spiders, all kind of different topwater critters for topwater panifish awhile. Never had anyone teach me anything I don't guess...just kinda self taught. Anyhow lately I've been trying to make a few foam cylinder type poppers and I've been real happy with the ways things are going with them...well besides the collars, skirts, however you'd call them. I ordered a few packs of strung saddle hackle and can get a pretty decent look with them.....it just seems there should be a "better" material for this. Maybe one I wouldn't have to dissect and pick through, waste and cuss so much lol. There are no fly shops around this area I can just look around look for what I think I want. Being very unfamiliar with hackle in general makes me very unsure as to what might be a better choice.

I guess what I'm looking for is a longer, more consistent width type hackle for these 3/8 diameter cyclinder popper collars. Like alot of color choices too.

I'd appricate any suggestions...many thanks.

[tidewaterfly 0]

I use a lot of strung hackle too, but primarily use just black for popper collars. Can't say I really like anything else for collars, but have used other hackle, such as guinea hackle, or synthetics such as Hackle Flash or Estaz.

 

For me the strung hackle is the most economical hackle to buy, as I primarily tie saltwater & bass flies, and use it for tails on Deceivers, Seaducers, and many other patterns, including Woolly Buggers. I don't mind picking thru it.

 

You might try Whiting Bugger Packs, which will give you a bit more consistent sizing, and as the name implies is good for tying Buggers too.

 

They're a bit higher priced than strung hackle however, but are available in many colors, including natural & dyed grizzly. I've seen them as low as $18 a pack, and up from there.

[famill00 0]

Bob Clouser uses Estaz for the collar on his EZ popper. Well, at least on one variation of it. That's the fun part about all this; you can use whatever you like!

 

-Forrest

[Stippled Popper 0]

The word Panfish covers a lot of ground. Saddle hackle is a bit long for a #10 or #12 popper intended to catch Bream.

Collars can also be fashioned from Deer Hair, Bucktail, or you can fashion a dubbing brush with the appropriate

fiber length for the popper size in question usually from some material which doesn't absorb water readily but

sometimes from a material which does absorb water if that is what is required to obtain the desired angle of the

popper in the water when it is being fished.

 

For my micro bream poppers I mostly use Whiting 100s Hackle Packs. However, you are not going to come close to

wrapping 100 poppers per pack and you aren't going to get that swept back look. You will have to get your motion

primarily from your rubber legs and other materials you tie into the tail.

[Franky6767 0]

Thanks for the replies! Guess I'm looking for something that wouldn't slow me down as much as this material I've been using....but yet look great...well to me anyhow. I've considered the estaz, ice chenille type stuff but thought it wouldn't give me the better look, but honestly never gave it a fair try. I do have a good bit of bucktail someone gave me once but don't know exactly how to produce a collar with it that would give me that traditional look I'm going for, I assume you mean spin a clump of hair and trim it? Haven't really considered that...hmmmmm.

 

Funny someone would mention whiting bugger packs as that was exactly what I was eyeing online. Looks like the type stuff that I could move right along with and get a great look but not at all sure till I get my hands on such. That type thing is what I think I would want anyhow lol.

 

Thanks again for any and all replies...nice to get input from folks more experenced with this type deal.

[skidoosh 0]

I've tied poppers like you are describing, if I understand you. I used metz saddle hackle. On strung hackle you need to throw out about half as you sort through it for consistent feathers. I would wrap the feathers then slide the popper back over the hackle. The effect was to "stack" the hackle and gave it a nice skirt. Do you fold your hackle? Are you tying it in tip first or tail first?

[Franky6767 0]

I've tied poppers like you are describing, if I understand you. I used metz saddle hackle. On strung hackle you need to throw out about half as you sort through it for consistent feathers. I would wrap the feathers then slide the popper back over the hackle. The effect was to "stack" the hackle and gave it a nice skirt. Do you fold your hackle? Are you tying it in tip first or tail first?

 

I have been tying the saddle( two of them at a time) in tail first, folding it back as I wrap and after the last wrap, trap the feather with a wrap and kinda hold the whole deal back and make a few wraps at the head of it...then the end of the popper body pushes over that alittle. Ya like a skirt type deal. Kinda like alot of collar ( maybe a lil wider than most folks would too) to give it a real bushy look behind the head...and all the plucking, looking, cussing lol kinda burns up time looking for the right width and length. Kinda makes me feel like I'm not getting alot done. Guess I enjoy it more when I can not only make bugs that look decent, to me anyhow......but make them faster in my time allowed. Haven't been able to see any metz saddle first hand to know myself. Hard for someone like me to tell about the pictures online when ordering....without having the first hand experence with alot of it.

[Kirk Dietrich 0]

...I mostly use Whiting 100s Hackle Packs. However, you are not going to come close to

wrapping 100 poppers per pack and you aren't going to get that swept back look. You will have to get your motion

primarily from your rubber legs and other materials you tie into the tail.

 

I second that. I use them for #8 & #10 tapered bugs, one feather will usually wrap two skirts and I actually like the way they don't sway back but stick out giving the little bug a good full appearance, well worth the money. For the same reason, when I'm being lazy, I'll use Estaz. There are some products like Estaz but with fibers that are a half to three quarters of an inch that you can use and they flow back being long.

 

Kirk

[Stippled Popper 0]

...I mostly use Whiting 100s Hackle Packs. However, you are not going to come close to

wrapping 100 poppers per pack and you aren't going to get that swept back look. You will have to get your motion

primarily from your rubber legs and other materials you tie into the tail.

 

I second that. I use them for #8 & #10 tapered bugs, one feather will usually wrap two skirts and I actually like the way they don't sway back but stick out giving the little bug a good full appearance, well worth the money. For the same reason, when I'm being lazy, I'll use Estaz. There are some products like Estaz but with fibers that are a half to three quarters of an inch that you can use and they flow back being long.

 

Kirk

 

I try to make the thread used to tie in the tail of a popper as invisible as possible. By using 8/0 thread and making the

tie-in area where the other materials tied into the tail area as small as possible while insuring locking them down firmly

with the addition of a small amount of head cement I can usually wrap more than two skirts with a single Whiting Hackle

feather. For large poppers tied for display such as the one shown in my Avatar the whole feather may be needed.

[skidoosh 0]

I've tied poppers like you are describing, if I understand you. I used metz saddle hackle. On strung hackle you need to throw out about half as you sort through it for consistent feathers. I would wrap the feathers then slide the popper back over the hackle. The effect was to "stack" the hackle and gave it a nice skirt. Do you fold your hackle? Are you tying it in tip first or tail first?

 

I have been tying the saddle( two of them at a time) in tail first, folding it back as I wrap and after the last wrap, trap the feather with a wrap and kinda hold the whole deal back and make a few wraps at the head of it...then the end of the popper body pushes over that alittle. Ya like a skirt type deal. Kinda like alot of collar ( maybe a lil wider than most folks would too) to give it a real bushy look behind the head...and all the plucking, looking, cussing lol kinda burns up time looking for the right width and length. Kinda makes me feel like I'm not getting alot done. Guess I enjoy it more when I can not only make bugs that look decent, to me anyhow......but make them faster in my time allowed. Haven't been able to see any metz saddle first hand to know myself. Hard for someone like me to tell about the pictures online when ordering....without having the first hand experence with alot of it.

 

I certainly understand your frustration. Some turn out great, others do not work at all. For larger sizes Whiting American Hackle is the way to go. If you look on you tube under popper or deer hair popper I think there are some videos of Christ Helm, those might help you pin point some problems. Any chance you could post some pictures of what is not working?

[Franky6767 0]

I certainly understand your frustration. Some turn out great, others do not work at all. For larger sizes Whiting American Hackle is the way to go. If you look on you tube under popper or deer hair popper I think there are some videos of Christ Helm, those might help you pin point some problems. Any chance you could post some pictures of what is not working?

 

Its not really that its not working....probably....no scratch that most likely lol... has alot to do with lack of experence. At the same time though seems there would be a better material to make it easier on someone less experenced like myself to deal with...also speed things up abit. Heres one like the type I'm talking about.

[Piker20 0]

Its not really that its not working....probably....no scratch that most likely lol... has alot to do with lack of experence. At the same time though seems there would be a better material to make it easier on someone less experenced like myself to deal with...also speed things up abit.

 

I'd be happy with that fly if it was mine. Maybe I might work on shaping the popper body a bit at the rear but the collar/tail area looks good.

 

Since joining the forum I've had to acknowledge that while quality materials do make a difference, a lot of the good looking flies comes down to shear practice, patience and lots of bad looking flies

Look at some of the posts and you'll see the 'simple' flies only look so because the person tying them has done it so often. As my granny used to say, hard work is easy to find, easy work is always hard to.

[Franky6767 0]

Its not really that its not working....probably....no scratch that most likely lol... has alot to do with lack of experence. At the same time though seems there would be a better material to make it easier on someone less experenced like myself to deal with...also speed things up abit.

 

I'd be happy with that fly if it was mine. Maybe I might work on shaping the popper body a bit at the rear but the collar/tail area looks good.

 

Since joining the forum I've had to acknowledge that while quality materials do make a difference, a lot of the good looking flies comes down to shear practice, patience and lots of bad looking flies

Look at some of the posts and you'll see the 'simple' flies only look so because the person tying them has done it so often. As my granny used to say, hard work is easy to find, easy work is always hard to.

 

Thanks for the reply. I kinda saw a popper jig online sold as a kit...river creations or something like that sold them. Thought it was really cool as I could cut some cylinders with sharpened tubes and such and make a bunch fast. Then I looked at the price and thought...thats not that cool lol. Ended up making one and thats the shape of it. New razor blades help...not the rusty huck of absolutely nothing I was using til I got a new pack lol.

 

Perhaps I should just start out taking all the feathers out,culled and sorted from the start might be the best for me. Instead of dealing with that one at the time deal.... might be better for me.

[Piker20 0]

Sometimes the feathers that retain the fluffy marabou type fibres at the base add extra body and movement to the pattern. Guess its whether you aim for a fly that catches fish or fishers? I always think the fish should be the best critic and sometimes what they like makes no sense at all to me.

[skidoosh 0]

I certainly understand your frustration. Some turn out great, others do not work at all. For larger sizes Whiting American Hackle is the way to go. If you look on you tube under popper or deer hair popper I think there are some videos of Christ Helm, those might help you pin point some problems. Any chance you could post some pictures of what is not working?

 

Its not really that its not working....probably....no scratch that most likely lol... has alot to do with lack of experence. At the same time though seems there would be a better material to make it easier on someone less experenced like myself to deal with...also speed things up abit. Heres one like the type I'm talking about.

 

From what you show it could be your materials. Here are some things to try. On the whole it looks ok, it will catch fish. I might recommend you use more feathers on the collar and wrap further forward, this part will be swept back even further by the popper body.

1) Wash your neck in dawn and dry it. Residual grease will cause clumping

2) Try a generic chinese neck - might help. Different materials will respond differently

3) Steam the feathers

4) Comb them out with a tooth brush after you tie them, some times fibers are trapped and cling together

Hope this help