Comparaduns, parachutes, winged/hackle dries... what do you use?

[Hellgrammite 0]

Hello folks.

 

A recent thread (And my eternal quest to pare down my fly boxes and eventually work from just ONE) poked this question into my cortex.

 

So... for mayflies - if you fish dries for them, that is - does someone need all 3 sorts? Or more? Less? Ive always wondered if i need dry dun imitations at all, but some sulphurs and bwos, and the adams, just seem too important not to have along.

 

How do you tie them? Do you just carry parachutes? 1 or 2 sizes and colors?

 

Or do you run at the other end of the spectrum, and carry a lot?

 

I should just chuck them alltogether, except maybe light cahill and adams parachutes and regulars... huh. Wonder if, in a wide enough range of sizes, theyd work adequately for BWOs/Sulphurs... Maybe I am answering my own question?

 

What do you do? What is your approach?

 

Having drank far too much grape Kool-Aid,

 

Amanda

[rainbow27 0]

I think the most versitile dry fly is a parachute becuase it coud be a dun or a spinner of posiibly an emerger. If i did not know were i was going to fish parachute adams in size 16-22 22 not neccesary

[Crackaig 0]

Some years ago I rejected parachutes as dun imitations. That doesn't mean that I don't think they work, neither does it mean I don't use them at all. I do not use them on flies intended to represent the recently fully emerged sub imago stage of up winged flies (duns).

 

This came about after noticing there were times when the trout would reject a parachute fly, but take a fly tied using all the same materials which was tied as a thorax dun with the hackle trimmed flat below the hook shank. After noticing this I continued with parachutes, and thorax duns for two years. On a few occasions I experienced similar preference for the thorax dun. I never experienced a preference for the parachute over the thorax dun.

 

The difference between the two is the ride height when the fly is on the water. A parachute rides with the hackle spread out on the meniscus and the body in the meniscus. The Thorax dun sits one body width higher, on the meniscus. Not a lot of difference, but when I observed a distinct preference for one over the other, I couldn't ignore the evidence.

 

The thorax dun is also easier and faster to tie. That means I win all round.

 

This was the starting point for me to develop "System Flies". One fly that will serve across a range of insects by simply varying the colour and / or size. That is how I simplified my fly box. My "grab" river box is the 6 compartment Wheatley type, very small. Yet if I have the chance of an hour or two on the river I can grab it, and be confident its contents will cover my needs.

 

Cheers,

C.

[sandflyx 0]

OMG, I go out with at least 6 boxes every trip except on the small brookie streams where only one or 2 flies is needed. that's part of what I like to do. plus I experiment all the time with patterns new and old trying to find that perfect fly.....Ahhhh nirvana yet to find.

[Bryon Anderson 0]

Some years ago I rejected parachutes as dun imitations. That doesn't mean that I don't think they work, neither does it mean I don't use them at all. I do not use them on flies intended to represent the recently fully emerged sub imago stage of up winged flies (duns).

 

This came about after noticing there were times when the trout would reject a parachute fly, but take a fly tied using all the same materials which was tied as a thorax dun with the hackle trimmed flat below the hook shank. After noticing this I continued with parachutes, and thorax duns for two years. On a few occasions I experienced similar preference for the thorax dun. I never experienced a preference for the parachute over the thorax dun.

 

The difference between the two is the ride height when the fly is on the water. A parachute rides with the hackle spread out on the meniscus and the body in the meniscus. The Thorax dun sits one body width higher, on the meniscus. Not a lot of difference, but when I observed a distinct preference for one over the other, I couldn't ignore the evidence.

 

The thorax dun is also easier and faster to tie. That means I win all round.

 

This was the starting point for me to develop "System Flies". One fly that will serve across a range of insects by simply varying the colour and / or size. That is how I simplified my fly box. My "grab" river box is the 6 compartment Wheatley type, very small. Yet if I have the chance of an hour or two on the river I can grab it, and be confident its contents will cover my needs.

 

Cheers,

C.

I was about to offer up my standard argument in favor of parachutes, but, having read the above, I might have to do some experimenting with thorax duns on the Au Sable (MI) this year.

 

I do use some standard hackled/winged dries, but typically only when fishing at night for trout, or for smallmouth bass. When I use them, I typically go for the bushy double-hackled patterns like Wulffs, Humpies and Stimulators. I like the bushiness not so much for the floatation but for the better profile it has under low-light conditions.

[utyer 0]

For Mayflies, I fish almost nothing but Compara-duns, and have for about 30 years. I have done NO comparative studies or research, but they have always worked for me. I developed two variations on the compara-dun which are my emerger and cripple patterns. When I am fishing mayfly patterns one of these is usually on my leader.

 

All three flies are quite simple, and NONE use hackle (you can, but it isn't necessary,) which makes for a very inexpensive patter. The compara-dun is tied on a standard dry fly hook while the emerger and cripples are tied on a scud (light wire,) hook. There are a few companies making a light wire scud hook and some even call them emerger hooks.

 

The main difference between the emerger and the cripple is in the wing position. The wings on my emergers are more upright (like the duns,) and the wing on the cripple is positioned more forward.

 

 

[shoebop 0]

Crackaig,

I will take it one step further. I like the up-side-down (USD) tied thorax dun. I have lots of parachute drys but for some reason I didn't really like the look of them. Purely an astetic bias. No science here. To my eye, they (USD thorax dun) seem to give the proper silouette while riding low in the film (miniscus).

[Hellgrammite 0]

Im always skeptical of comparaduns in bouncy water, but then, in bouncy water, I suppose youre far more likely to have cripples and drowned bugs, so a soft hackle would be the ticket.

 

The fact they dont use hackles IS a delightful plus.

 

they ARE more difficult to see; my eyes are far from stellar, and the nice poly wing post on a parachute is wonderful. HHmmm.

 

And I am dying to see what you have in that 6-compartment wheatley. I cant manage to pare myself down below 3 boxes (2 small wheatleys and 1 small scientific anglers box for nymphs).

[Hellgrammite 0]

Doubleposted. No idea how.

 

[Crackaig 0]

Shoebop, I have been known to tie them upside down, usually on a curved shank hook. The long shank curved hooks would seem to fit the bill for this, but they are near impossible to make them float in the right attitude. My solution has been to use a fairly short shank curved light wire hook.

 

Byron, I'll photograph the thorax dun as I tie it for you if you would like to try it.

 

Cheers,

C.

[shoebop 0]

Yep, I use the curved shank hook on them. I haven't noticed any problems with them floating improperly. Lucky I guess

[FrequentTyer 0]

I'm with Crackaig on this. Only I am curious what you mean by thorax dun. Some guys just clip the hackle on the bottom of a standard dry and that is no where near as good as it could be. I was influenced by Vince Marinaro's writings on the topic and while I know comparaduns and parachute patterns catch fish, I also know that they are unlikely being taken as duns. Marinaro's thorax dun tied properly with the crossed hackle is a must for me, but I also use a lot of Catskill patterns and variants. I do keep a few parachute Adams and dedicated emerger patterns. Oh and spinners. One flybox, that's just nuts :-)

[oldtrout58 0]

I tie many parachutes and comparaduns each year.

 

For mayflies, the past few years I find myself fishing more "profile" flies like the Quigley cripples and the biot/CDC emergers.

[Hellgrammite 0]

I'm with Crackaig on this. Only I am curious what you mean by thorax dun. Some guys just clip the hackle on the bottom of a standard dry and that is no where near as good as it could be. I was influenced by Vince Marinaro's writings on the topic and while I know comparaduns and parachute patterns catch fish, I also know that they are unlikely being taken as duns. Marinaro's thorax dun tied properly with the crossed hackle is a must for me, but I also use a lot of Catskill patterns and variants. I do keep a few parachute Adams and dedicated emerger patterns. Oh and spinners. One flybox, that's just nuts :-)

 

Well.

 

One is sort of a romantic ideal, really. I know some people manage it,and it works well for them, but even if i could narrow my selection enough - which I can likely do - I cannot find one box that serves me well for all kinds of flies. I use one with slotted foam (A sci anglers) for nymphs and soft hackle wets, and 2 small wheatleys - one 12 compartment, one six - for everything else; I own 2 other wheatleys that I use to hold extras at home. I wish a box with deep, single compartments on one side and a deepish lid with slotted foam, and maybe a leaf with slotted foam for small midges, nymphs, etc, would be made, but till then, I dont know if i can narrow it down more.

 

Amanda

[Crackaig 0]

The amount or size of boxes I carry vary with the length of trip. If I'm grabbing a couple of hours my small box will do. If I'm there for a full day then I have a larger box for nymphs, wets and dries also another for streamers if appropriate. I don't want to run out of a specific pattern when it is all the fish will take.

 

To answer the question this is my Thorax dun, tied on a 16 for large dark olives and on an 18 for medium olives. This illustrates what I mean by tying the same fly in different sizes and colours for different insects.

Hook: Hyabusa All Purpose Light barbless.

Thread: UTC 79 Tan.

Wing: Cream micro antron.

Tail: Grizzle hackle barbs (Change colour to match species).

Body: Superfine Dubbing colour to match natural.

Hackle: Cock saddle colour to match natural.

The body dubbing is taken all the way from tail to head with the hackle wound over the dubbing. A tiny amount more dubbing is applied to the thread and the whip finish formed with dubbed thread. This fly has become known at the Paythorne Dun after the length of the R. Ribble where I first used it to great effect. However the name would mean nothing so I called it the Thorax Dun to give you a better idea what I was talking about. Hope it's clear now. It is quite close to the original. The main variation is the wing.

Most of the places I fish these are quite rough water. If I was fishing more in slower, smoother water I would use fewer turns of hackle.

Cheers,

C.