m_grieb 0 Report post Posted February 10, 2014 is this legal? ive been taking alot of people ice fishing lately and was wondering if i could do this to add another fun aspect of being out on the lake. Matt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shoebop 0 Report post Posted February 10, 2014 I don't think you are supposed to leave any debris on the ice. So, can you have a fire? Only if you don't leave any debris. I'm not sure if that's possible. Why on earth would you want a bonfire anyway? Just take a propane heater instead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
m_grieb 0 Report post Posted February 10, 2014 yeah ive got four propane heaters, and believe me, when you spend an average of 20 hours out on the lake in just one weekend(not to mention the time i spend out there during the week), it gets expensive. im currently having a friend making a woodstove for my shanty, but i was just looking for something i could do outside. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikechell 0 Report post Posted February 10, 2014 You'll have to check with the Fish-and-Game people, the Sheriff and the E.P.A. Used to be, in my day, we'd have fires going on the ice all day. I didn't spend that much time out there, (I hated cold then, too) but when I was out there ice skating or ice fishing, there'd be a fire going. But that was before the E.P.A. (enacted in 1976) Now, I think you'd get in more trouble than it's worth. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
m_grieb 0 Report post Posted February 11, 2014 ok thanks. does anybody have any other thoughts? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
netabrookie 0 Report post Posted February 13, 2014 Once again, I am a bit confused. I understand the necessity of some form of heat to make the person fishing a little more comfortable and I also understand that propane can start to get expensive but what I don't understand is how you maintain a large fire on a frozen lake. I realize that the ice is very thick and some folks drive vehicles out on it but doesn't the huge fire tend to melt down into the ice? I have built campfires on top of crusted over snow only to have the fire melt a depression in the snow and create its own fire pit. I have dug out the snow to build a fire only to have the surrounding snow trying to melt and run into the dugout and try to put out the fire. I can't help but find this amusing because fire and ice have always been at the opposite ends of the spectrum. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
m_grieb 0 Report post Posted February 13, 2014 actually, the temperature at the bottom of the fire is relatively low. this is because the flame is actually gapped from the wood. Ive had fires on lakes burning for two weeks straight and they only melted in about 5 inches of the ice. however, these were private lakes and im just not sure if it is legal on public lakes. im not asking if it is possible, because I know it is. im just asking if anyone know if it is legal. Matt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikechell 0 Report post Posted February 13, 2014 Once again, I am a bit confused. I understand the necessity of some form of heat to make the person fishing a little more comfortable and I also understand that propane can start to get expensive but what I don't understand is how you maintain a large fire on a frozen lake. I realize that the ice is very thick and some folks drive vehicles out on it but doesn't the huge fire tend to melt down into the ice? I have built campfires on top of crusted over snow only to have the fire melt a depression in the snow and create its own fire pit. I have dug out the snow to build a fire only to have the surrounding snow trying to melt and run into the dugout and try to put out the fire. I can't help but find this amusing because fire and ice have always been at the opposite ends of the spectrum. Eventually, it will melt through the ice, but there's a couple of things to consider. 1) WATER and fire don't mix, so as the ice melts, it tends to soak the wood and ash so that the fire can't burn it. This create a bit of an insulating layer. 2) As stated, the temps at the bottom of a fire are much cooler, especially if the fire is burning well. It pulls in cold air as the heated air rises, so there is a cold air flow coming in under the fire. Mostly, it's the fact that the water created by melting pools, thus protecting the ice from further melting ... snow, since it's rather porous, will melt faster as the melt water runs down through it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
essequamvideri 0 Report post Posted February 14, 2014 Sitting here with my wife and daughter watching a singing show I have no interest in, thought I'd google the answer. NATURAL RESOURCES AND ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION ACT (EXCERPT)Act 451 of 1994 324.8902 Littering property or water prohibited; removal of injurious substances dropped on highway as result of accident. Sec. 8902. (1) A person shall not knowingly, without the consent of the public authority having supervision of public property or the owner of private property, dump, deposit, place, throw, or leave, or cause or permit the dumping, depositing, placing, throwing, or leaving of, litter on public or private property or water other than property designated and set aside for such purposes. (2) A person who removes a vehicle that is wrecked or damaged in an accident on a highway, road, or street shall remove all glass and other injurious substances dropped on the highway, road, or street as a result of the accident. History: 1994, Act 451, Eff. Mar. 30, 1995Popular Name: Act 451Popular Name: LitteringPopular Name: NREPA I think that would make it illegal. That would also include the private waters you speak of. Sorry bout that. Michael Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shoebop 0 Report post Posted February 14, 2014 Sitting here with my wife and daughter watching a singing show I have no interest in, thought I'd google the answer. NATURAL RESOURCES AND ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION ACT (EXCERPT) Act 451 of 1994 324.8902 Littering property or water prohibited; removal of injurious substances dropped on highway as result of accident. Sec. 8902. (1) A person shall not knowingly, without the consent of the public authority having supervision of public property or the owner of private property, dump, deposit, place, throw, or leave, or cause or permit the dumping, depositing, placing, throwing, or leaving of, litter on public or private property or water other than property designated and set aside for such purposes. (2) A person who removes a vehicle that is wrecked or damaged in an accident on a highway, road, or street shall remove all glass and other injurious substances dropped on the highway, road, or street as a result of the accident. History: 1994, Act 451, Eff. Mar. 30, 1995 Popular Name: Act 451 Popular Name: Littering Popular Name: NREPA I think that would make it illegal. That would also include the private waters you speak of. Sorry bout that. Michael Sorry, but I don't think it makes it illegal to have a fire on the ice. It makes it illegal to leave the debris from a fire. So IF you CAN have a fire AND remove all the debris I don't see a problem. LITTERING IS THE ISSUE. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikechell 0 Report post Posted February 14, 2014 Natural, biodegradable materials are not generally considered litter. If fact, it's illegal in some areas, to remove decaying wood and other nutritive substances. It only becomes litter when it is something process and manufactured. Paper, for example, is biodegradable, but it's litter because it's an eyesore until it does break down. But, dumping large quantities of ash in any waterway would probably be considered a bad idea. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Stevester 0 Report post Posted February 14, 2014 First, this wouldn't be covered under the federal EPA regs, it would be a state rule and your best bet would be to contact your local fish and wildlife official or game warden. Second, water and ice have a large capacity to absorb heat before changing temperature. It is one of the things that makes life as we know it possible on this planet. With regards to the litter issue, you could bring a shallow container to use as a fire pit and just haul it back to shore when you leave. When we lived in VT a number of years back I seem to remember that people built fires out on the lakes during the season but I could be wrong on that. Steve Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
essequamvideri 0 Report post Posted February 14, 2014 I love slow days at work when you can do stuff like this. To ad a bit more to this thread NATURAL RESOURCES AND ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTION ACT (EXCERPT)Act 451 of 1994324.8901 Definitions. Sec. 8901. As used in this part: (a) "Litter" means rubbish, refuse, waste material, garbage, offal, paper, glass, cans, bottles, trash, debris, or other foreign substances or a vehicle that is considered abandoned under section 252a of the Michigan vehicle code, 1949 PA 300, MCL 257.252a. ( "Public or private property or water" includes, but is not limited to, any of the following: (i) The right-of-way of a road or highway, a body of water or watercourse, or the shore or beach of a body of water or watercourse, including the ice above the water. (ii) A park, playground, building, refuge, or conservation or recreation area. (iii) Residential or farm properties or timberlands. Michael Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fishslayer88 0 Report post Posted February 17, 2014 Ever consider a metal drum? Punch some holes in the sides close to the bottom so it will draw then when you're done all your ash will be in the can. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
m_grieb 0 Report post Posted February 18, 2014 Called the dnr directors office. It is, in fact, legal. She just told me to pick up the unburnt logs after I was done. Had a great time this weekend. Matt Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
