What grade of hackle to get?

[JSzymczyk 0]

"100 packs" as marketed by Whiting include enough total feather length to tie 100 flies... in their estimation. Usually about 20 feathers per pack if I remember correctly. They are saddle hackles, not cape hackles.

[Randyflycaster 0]

I bought a hundred pack from FE that had feathers of three sizes: 12, 14, 16. I'm very happy with the feathers. They did not, however, come in a Whiting Pack.

 

Randy

[ibookje 0]

The genetic hackle industry, we'll probably only Whiting, has gone too far with the optimizing. It's almost impossible to get decent numbers of hackles in size 10 and 12. Silver grade capes are for instance 16 and smaller like in the size 24!

 

Most dry flies I tie are 12 and 14 and the occasional 16. Yes having some midge hackles is nice too.

[Jaydub 0]

 

Now I'm confused more than ever! What is a euro saddle? Is a cape large size variety short feathers? Saddle long feathers low variety? What are 100 packs made from? What hackle is used for wet fly wings? What type of feather barbs for dry fly tails?

Capes generally have two or three size feathers which are long and will give several flies each within that range.

 

 

I think you meant to say Saddles here.

 

Capes, also called necks, should have a wide ranges of sizes with shorter feathers than saddles. Generally the higher grade capes will have more small feathers (#20 and smaller). Saddles have long feathers that are mostly in two or three sizes.

 

100 packs are ensough pre-sized saddle feathers to tie 100 flies (in therory) of one size.

 

Here is Whitings explaination of their grading system: http://www.whitingfarms.com/articles/grading.html

[jfinn 0]

 

 

Now I'm confused more than ever! What is a euro saddle? Is a cape large size variety short feathers? Saddle long feathers low variety? What are 100 packs made from? What hackle is used for wet fly wings? What type of feather barbs for dry fly tails?

Capes generally have two or three size feathers which are long and will give several flies each within that range.

 

 

I think you meant to say Saddles here.

 

Capes, also called necks, should have a wide ranges of sizes with shorter feathers than saddles. Generally the higher grade capes will have more small feathers (#20 and smaller). Saddles have long feathers that are mostly in two or three sizes.

 

100 packs are ensough pre-sized saddle feathers to tie 100 flies (in therory) of one size.

 

Here is Whitings explaination of their grading system: http://www.whitingfarms.com/articles/grading.html

 

I think i'm understanding now but it seems like this topic is easily confused.

[hairwing 0]

Bite the bullet and save yourself a lot of grief .....for $75 bucks you can start blaming poor fly tying on inexperience and not the materials and tools you use. FE is not the only supplier that offers these Whiting starter packs, and starter pack is a misnomer as far as I'm concerned...I'd be happy with these hackles and I ain't a starter ! All the colors and sizes you need. http://www.featheremporium.com/Fly-Tying-Feathers/dry-fly-hackle2.html

 

[Fletchfishes 0]

Couldn't agree more with the recommendation for the Whiting starter pack. If you want to learn more, there have been a couple of excellent links. Here is one more article that I think will give you a great start on understanding the factors to consider when buying dry hackle:

 

http://singlebarbed.com/2010/10/11/chicken-scalps-large-dollars-fly-tying-and-dry-flies-merely-add-a-pretty-face/

[barrytheguide 0]

 

 

 

 

 

I agree that the hackle availbale now is far superior to what was available in the past. However, there has been a slow but steady migration to smaller and smaller saddle hackle. It used to be that quality size 18 or even 16 and smaller saddle hackle was difficult to get, but now it is the size 8/10/12's that are rare. I find my that I resort to my Metz saddle hackle from the 1980's to find the correct size.

 

Try finding a Metz 100 pack in a true size 12. It may be labeled size 12 but you will find that it smaller and mislabelled.

 

Whiting Eurosaddles are your friend. Bigger sizes and great colors.

 

 

I have been trying to buy them for 3 years from Jim's Fly Company. I see Jim Slattery every year at Campfire Lodge. He is out every year. Unfortunately, I cannot seem to find any grizzly, or coachman brown saddles to examine.

 

The fashion industry has changed the dynamic so now I cannot find saddles.

 

"By this I mean we are going to disassemble our EuroHackle saddles and repackage them in a new product line called the “Whiting Fashion Pack”. Sixteen long feathers of a single color will be affixed on our branded board, very much like our Whiting 100 Packs, but not sized as to hook size. The suggested retail price will be $20.00

 

In order to do this more fair allocation of our limited EuroHackle saddles we will have to cease selling full or half saddles as a product line."

 

http://hatchesmagazine.com/blogs/Hatches/2011/02/26/whiting-eurohackle-fashion-killed-the-fly-tyer/

 

http://www.featheremporium.com/Hair-Feathers/euro-hackle.html

 

http://www.caddisflyshop.com/hareline-eurohackle-saddle.html

 

The fashion industry has all but fallen off the face of the planet, but Eurosaddles have stayed in demand kind of like .22 ammo has... We actually have both the coachman brown and the grizzly in our inventory right now. Dr. Whiting is very selective on who he is shipping Eurosaddles to right now.

 

Those articles are a bit dated, and whiting stuff is much easier to find now. This being said, we will occasionally have hairdressers order on our site, but anyone who orders a eurosaddle is asked a series of questions to verify their intent. If the intent is to do hair, they get a full refund.

 

 

 

So if this is the case, as I think it is, why has the price of Capes and Saddles not come down? Price gouging ?

Chinese hackles may not be such a bad thing if their quality gets to the same as premium hackles.

Remember, the major hackle suppliers were happy to take orders from the fashion industry and charge a fortune at the same time. Look on Ebay if you don't believe me.

I wrote a letter to Whiting on the subject and did not get a response.

[Guest]

When I first started tying flies the standing answer I got was "Buy the best you can afford on your budget"!! Few years ago there was a swap box of materials that went around but I don't know what happened to it.

[JSzymczyk 0]

prices of saddles has come down, perhaps not to the pre-fad days but pretty close.... there were Whiting saddles selling for nearly $1000 on line during the height of the idiocy.

[JohnWu 0]

ended up getting grade 2 metz, cost £35.99, does me well, I've been able to tie from 12 to 18 so far, haven't needed anything smaller as of yet, any bigger ill just use an indian cock cape

 

 

 

[SilverCreek 0]

Whiting is by far the best at grading their hackle.

 

http://www.whitingfarms.com/articles/grading.html

 

We did an extensive comparison study on most of the popular brands, and we found that Whiting bronze grade is a really really good value. Pro grade, and high and dry capes are very good as well.

 

http://www.flyfishfood.com/2014/09/hackle-comparisons.html

 

Cheech

 

 

I like that study. I came to the conclusion on my own that the Hebert Miner Pro Grade was the hackle I was going to use. I bought them when they were about $22 a Saddle.