Quality vs "value priced" materials when starting out

[tagsoup 0]

I've read at least a few times that a beginner should buy only quality materials to avoid needless frustration. Well it makes sense to me, but when researching what hackle to tie wooly buggers with, a lot of experienced tyers use whatever is left of the saddle or cape, or whatever is laying around, implying that wooly bugger hackle doesn't need fretting over. Or maybe "whatever is laying around" is actually high quality stuff. Regardless, I'd feel dumb if my buggers ended up costing me three times as much as Upqua buggers. 

Charlie Craven said beginners should start out tying flies in the smaller sizes because once you have that skill you'll easily tie larger sizes, but if you learn by tying larger sizes you'll have to learn a whole new set of skills to tie smaller flies. Makes sense to me. 

I haven't really looked around for "value priced" material though I did see some micro tubing in the crafts section at walmart yesterday. Many of the flies that I've bought in fly shops were obviously tied with the cheapest hackle on the cheapest hooks, apparently using cotton sewing thread and dubbed with dryer lint. If I ever tie a fly that crappy I'd question my motive and my decisions that led up to it, but I think I could probably learn to tie okay using the less expensive materials. Where can a tyer cheap out without tying a garbage fly? 

Also, I'm sure this question has been asked and answered at least 14,008 times on this forum, so if I'm wasting valuable server space and everybody's time, please just drop a relevant link and be done with it. I've never seen a search function that worked for me. 

 

 

[chugbug27 0]

It's an oversimplification.

For example: Strung saddle is crappy to tie dry fly hackle with, but better than superb quality genetic saddle hackle to tie wooly buggers with. Another example: Whiting sells "Bugger" hackle and an American Rooster hackle, both of which probably offer great quality hackle for making buggers. But cheap non-generic strung saddle hackle is really just fine for making wooly buggers, too, and will not lead to much frustration if any (imo). Beginner dollars are better spent elsewhere, buy the strung hackle fit your huggers, imo.

Now, if you are starting to tie dry flies and are buying dry fly hackle, in that instance (imo) a beginner is better off spending a little more to get a better quality genetic rooster hackle. But it's still a question of, how many dry flies are you going to tie and in what sizes? A Keough neck may be fine, rather than a more densely and more finely hackled Whiting neck. And depending on what you are after Whiting may not be the best choice, either.

Mainly I think what people mean when they say to use quality materials is not to use inferior quality deer hair (tips too long and thin, too curly), or peacock herl, (too sparse and haggard) or turkey tail feathers (damaged tips, crushed feathers, not well mottled), that sort of thing -- that materials of all sorts need to be inspected for quality and that tying with inferior quality hair or herl or tail feathers, etc can be terribly frustrating and result in an inferior fly.

The problem for a beginner is knowing what qualities to look for. Fortunately, the Internet (and this forum) gives you lots of information in that regard. But really what a beginner can often benefit from is help -- either from a trusted, reputable shop, or from a tying club or mentor, a good book, that sort of thing. There are some awesome articles we can point you to, as well, on deer and elk hair, and tying thread, etc etc

Ask away here. You'll get help on what to look for with particular materials, recommendations for reputable sources, etc. 

P.S. here's an article on using dryer lint for dubbing...

https://globalflyfisher.com/tie-better/wash-n-dry-dubbing

And lots of tyers here (not all) are very happy with these (and other) hooks costing under $10/100

https://www.wholesaleflycompany.com/hooks

Welcome!

[tagsoup 0]

chugbug27, thanks for the detailed response. I wondered if there were other materials besides hackle that might present a quality vs quantity dilemma but I never would've guessed deer hair or turkey tail feathers as common as those are. Luckily, since archery deer season has come and gone for me I won't be scrutinizing my quarry for the fly tying potential of its hide. The Elk Hair Caddis is one of the flies I want to tie so I'll probably ask hair related questions soon, and I'll hold off on attempting Dave's Hopper until I pass Deer and Elk hair 101.

Thank you for pointing me to wholesaleflycompany.com for hooks! I groaned when I saw the price of Daiichi hooks but dropped $80 on them in my first order anyway. My wooly buggers really will cost three times as much as Umpqua buggers, but I guarantee the maribou won't just fall off. 

You know, when I wrote that about dryer lint I actually ran the feasibility through my mind but I didn't really think it would work. Did you know you can make a dubbing noodle of waxed dental floss and toilet paper? It's a true story: I have to wrap a square of TP around my fingers before I wind the floss around, otherwise the floss cuts into my fingers. I have to take care to not spin the floss or it will pick up little bits of TP and be useless for flossing my teeth. Wierd, I know, but that's my life. I bought extra strong TP and it solved that problem. 

PS -- I love the food and music in NOLA. It's the only city that hasn't kicked me out for smiling far more than I should.  

 

 

 

[MuskyFlyGuy 0]

Welcome 

Our members are the best search engine you will ever find. Chug gave great information you can take to the bank. Don’t get overwhelmed. 

[tagsoup 0]

Thanks MuskyFlyGuy, I knew Chug was laying down some truth. I'll keep my chin up. 

[chugbug27 0]

3 hours ago, tagsoup said:

The Elk Hair Caddis is one of the flies I want to tie so I'll probably ask hair related questions soon, and I'll hold off on attempting Dave's Hopper until I pass Deer and Elk hair 101

 

3 hours ago, tagsoup said:

PS -- I love the food and music in NOLA. It's the only city that hasn't kicked me out for smiling far more than I should.  

👍👍👍

Just got back from a night out with Smoking Time Jazz Club at Maison and Dominic Grillo at the Cat.

😁

[SilverCreek 0]

13 hours ago, tagsoup said:

chugbug27, thanks for the detailed response. I wondered if there were other materials besides hackle that might present a quality vs quantity dilemma but I never would've guessed deer hair or turkey tail feathers as common as those are. Luckily, since archery deer season has come and gone for me I won't be scrutinizing my quarry for the fly tying potential of its hide. The Elk Hair Caddis is one of the flies I want to tie so I'll probably ask hair related questions soon, and I'll hold off on attempting Dave's Hopper until I pass Deer and Elk hair 101.

Thank you for pointing me to wholesaleflycompany.com for hooks! I groaned when I saw the price of Daiichi hooks but dropped $80 on them in my first order anyway. My wooly buggers really will cost three times as much as Umpqua buggers, but I guarantee the maribou won't just fall off. 

 

Read this for finding the right hair for the EHC.

https://www.flytyingforum.com/index.php?/topic/69829-what-to-look-for-in-comparadun-hair/&tab=comments#comment-522278

For inexpensive hooks try The Fly Shack.

https://www.flyshack.com/DisplayCategory.aspx?CatID=640&src=gaw&gclid=Cj0KCQjw0vWnBhC6ARIsAJpJM6eosWwrZ216b9r-uZpMIXbTqejA0gVXsl9NY_9ra-4MzNLXmHxbRqYaAn-IEALw_wcB

[flytire 0]

Poor quality tools and materials are destined to discourage beginner tiers and cause greater expense when the time comes to replace them.

[tagsoup 0]

SilverCreek, thanks for the links. I started reading about deer and elk hair, and how to properly tie an EHC, and I found it extremely difficult to pull myself away. "In another moment down went Alice after it, never once considering how in the world she was to get out again." 

flytire, I am now beginning to understand in what ways your admonition is true.