Elk Hair Caddis

[Guest]

Hey yall, this guy I know just asked if he could buy a batch of bluegill flies from me. He said that he wanted me to tie him an elk hair caddis, but in bright flashy colors. I only have one color of rabbit dubbing, but plenty of other dubbing colors. I have plenty of other color hackle, but I don`t have any elk hair. Is deer hair a substitute for elk hair? I have tied a few with deer hair, and they have come out pretty good, atleast I think. Thanks in advance! Tight lines and good tyin!-redneck

[Guest]

Deer hair as long as its good nothern deer body hair, should work fine.

THe reason I say Good nothern Deer hair is because the hair from the deer up here is more hollow (because of the long winters) and will float the flies as good as if it were tied from Elk.

 

 

 

OSD.

[mcfly 0]

Tie one with the hair you have and see how well it floats. If it sits on top of the water you are ok if not look for some elk hair. Its fairly cheap.

[Guest]

Here is my opinion for what it is worth. If a guy wants to buy an Elk Hair Caddis I would think that he wants an Elk Hair Caddis. When you start dealing with people who are paying for your work it should be what they are expecting. Sure it might float just as well but at least ask the guy if it is OK if you substitute with deer hair. If the guy doesn't care, go for it.

[mcfly 0]

Like smallie said if he is a paying customer you don't want to sub in some other material. Get his ok first or just buy the elk hair. From the way it sounded the guy was a friend and friends usually pay poorly or in beer

[Guest]

I will Quote from A.K. Best's book Production Fly Tying page 112

QUOTE

Another hint-- Don't use elk hair. It is thick and flares and breaks very easily. White -tail deer hair comes in all the same colors and tip markings as elk yet it is much finer and stronger hair making tying easier and faster and the resulting in a more durable fly

But I agree with Will tell the guy that the elk hair caddis is deer hair.

 

 

OSD.

[kschu 0]

I'm still relatively new to fly tying. I just picked up my first hair stacker last week. During the Fly Tying class which I took last month, we tied an Elk Hair Caddis. The instructor offered us Bleached Elk Hair from his own supply of materials. It was not a difficult tie and I was very pleased with how it turned out.

 

When I picked up my stacker, I went to the shop's wall of materials and was looking for Bleached Elk Hair, since that is what we used in class. It is not much good to own a hair stacker and not have any hair to stack. The store manager offered me a really good deal on a larger quantity of Deer Hair, in two lengths (short belly hair and longer hair from I believe the back). He said I should be able to substitute the Deer Hair without any problems or ill effects. I have never found George's advice to lead me astray.

 

OSD, I am interested in the referance you quoted. You said it was from a book on "Production Fly Tying". I take it that implies tying more than a few of any given fly, most likely so that they can be sold. Was this quote a general referance implying that AKB suggests using deer hair in place of elk hair in general? Or was it a suggestion that one use this substitution specifically when tying this Caddis pattern?

 

More later,

Ken S.

 

[Guest]

Yes Ken

The Books title is "Production Fly Tying by A.K. Best

IMHO one of the best fly tiers in the world today.

And he uses nothing but deer hair for his caddis and not just a substitution.

And I agree with the fact that it makes a better looking and more durable fly.

But you got to be careful wht kind of deer hair your using

You must use hair from the deer’s back and preferably Northern deer hair.

 

 

 

http://www.greencaddis.com/advanced_search...oduction+tying+

 

 

 

OSD.

[breambuster 0]

Green Caddis has bleached elk hair patches for a good price. I'm wanting to tie some elk hair caddis for bluegill fishing also. My order is now pending, so I should have it soon. The patterns I have seen call for "Bleached" elk hair, which is going to produce a lighter colored fly than regular deer hair, unless it comes from the deer belly. The white hair from a deer's belly may be more white than the bleached elk hair. I'm not sure how important color is, but IF it's important, then the BLEACHED elk hair may be the only way to go.

 

Randall

[lanvaettir 0]

The "Elk hair" caddis is a staple fly in the West and everybody I know uses deer hair to tie them. Just make sure not to use coastal deer. It doesn't have the same hollow core that spinning deer hair or elk hair has so it doesn't float as well.

[Guest]

I told him just to pay me for the shipping, and that it. He is redneck from the site, and he doesn`t know too much about the different materials, and I asked if he minded the substitue, and he said he didn`t care. Thanks for the help guys! Also though, about the dubbing. Does it matter? I got a good bit of different colored, unatural dubbing, and am kinda wantin to use it. Is that okay? Thanks! Tight lines and good tyin!-rednek

[Philly 0]

A tip that was given to me a few years ago.

If you're planning to tie a lot of caddis, rather than buying individual patches of deer hair, see if you can get hold of a deer's mask. The mask has a variety of hair colors on it and you can pretty much match most of the major caddis hatches. Length varies but on a good mask you can find hair long enough to tie medium size hoppers. Then there's always material to tie the world famous Deer's Ear nymph.

[Guest]

Gray- I am confused about something (what else is new!) in your last answer- do you have NATURAL or UNNATURAL dubbing? If it is natural, mix some synthetic, like Hareline Dubbin, into your natural body dubbing. it will help it float, give it some light (reflection) contrast, and add some durability to the body.

 

You should try making your body by either separating (splitting) your thread and inserting the dubbing between the strands or making a dubbing loop and winding it around the body; this helps to make the body more durable.

[beartooth 0]

Deer hair has worked well for me. One thing to note when getting the hair, though is that there are varying "seasons" of hair for deer, elk, and moose, depending on the season, there will be variances in the weight/feel/thickness (due to the coat at the time), and so the float might vary on it a bit.

 

 

[dontheo 0]

Well, here's my two cents. There is actually a pattern called the "deer hair caddis". It was designed by some one in Oregon that wanted a darker pattern for the area. So maybe that's a consideration also, the color of the hair. I think the size of the fly you tye is another. If you use some large norhtern hair on a small sly you will loose most of the floating properties when you trim it as it is more hollow near the bottom. Plus larger hair will tend to splay more and you want the caddis to lay back like wings.

 

I would tie one fly, give it to him, tell him what you used. He will be back for more.

 

Ted