Peddler 0 Report post Posted June 29, 2004 I have this idea to make Copper John's with two alternating colors of wire. I have dinked around with tying them and the results are worse than bad. Any and all hints, tips or cheats on making them purdy are highly appreciated. Thanks, Jack Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Steeldrifter 0 Report post Posted June 29, 2004 How are you wrapping the wire are you alternating wraps? i have very little experiance with CJ's but chris walked me through tying some last fall and i have done a few. Think maybe twisting the 2 together to form one wire of mixed color would work? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Peddler 0 Report post Posted June 29, 2004 steeldrifter, I'd like the wires side-by-side so they alternate like a segmented body. The spacing is what is giving me fits. With wires the same diameter the spacing seems critical and to keep a perfect gap seems impossible. I tried a wider wire with a smaller diameter wire layed in the groove it leaves but the durability seems suspect. This is a real puzzle! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Report post Posted June 29, 2004 Are you wrapping one wire at a time? If so would it be possible to tie in both wires and make one wrap per color and alternate the wire that way all the way up the hook shank? Another possibility would be to hold both wires together and wrap them side by side Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pujic 0 Report post Posted June 29, 2004 Thinking about this at work, and not at the vise I would have to say that Smallie's suggestion is right. If both wires were tied in at once, and wrapped at once it "should" work. Mind you, I've said that many times before with not so great results. I'll try it when I get home tonight and let you know. Also, if the wire is supple enough, you can do a form of weaving, with a darker color on top and a lighter color on the bottom. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Report post Posted June 29, 2004 Nick, before I finished reading the thread my head said to my eyes "why doesn't he just wrap the wires 'side by each' at the same time???" I have some incredibly fine diameter wire in different colors, which wraps beautifully; I'd guess you wanted to use green and copper for this application of a segmented looking body. Dinking Around. Bind the two wire legs to the bottom of the shank from a point two eye-widths behind the eye to the break at the bend. Run your thread back to the beginning. Cement the thread wraps, copper wire and hook shank together somehow- your favorite clear nail polish, a tiny amount of epoxy, whatever. Take each leg of wire extending past the hook up one side only- one color to one side, the other opposite. Cross the wires on the top or dorsal side of the hook wire and MAKE ONE FULL TWIST over and against the hook wire, locking the two coppers in place. Pinch them together gently in your fingertips and spiral forward, lapping the tie-in ends one turn. You can figure out the rest. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
breambuster 0 Report post Posted June 29, 2004 Wrapping the two wires, side by side, together, at the same time, is, I think, the way to go. Imagine that you are wrapping a wide piece of floss. The two wires, held side by side, make up the piece of floss. Hold the two pieces of wire side by side and wrap them over and around the shank. Continue to repeat this process until the shank is fully wrapped. It's the same idea as you would use in tying a mosquito pattern using a light and a dark strand of moose mane. It makes a light and dark segmented body. Hope I've made this clear and that it works for you. BB Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
appalachian angler (tn.) 0 Report post Posted June 30, 2004 Ped, I would start with a good under lamment of thread and/or floss to give shape and something for the wires to grip on. Second, start the 1st wire and tie it in along the top of the hook shank, ending at the point where the thorax begins. Make one wrap only at the bend by going under the shank and coming around towards you(assuming you are tying right handed). Tie in 2nd wire the same way as the 1st, laying it parallel, and grasp the married wires with your hackle pliers and wrap to the thorax. Coat the abdommen you just built with your favorite cement, clear nail polish or epoxy. Instead of using two wires and gluing the abdommen, I like to tie a version of copper john with a continuous ribbing of peacock or ostrich herl laying over, but in between the wraps of copper wire on the abdommen. Hope this helps! A.A. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Streamside 0 Report post Posted June 30, 2004 Sometimes just that little color contrast can make all the difference in the world. I have a number of different Brassie and Copper John's that I tie using alternating colors. One of my favorites, a fly I developed about ten years ago is my Candycane Midge. It is tied with a small red glass bead head peacock hurl collar and Hot Orange and Green Ultra Wire. It is a deadly brown trout fly, and continues to catch me many 20 - 25" resident browns every season. I tied one up here quick so you can see it. Recipe: Mustad or Tiemco curved nymph hook # 16- 20 # 00 white Uni thread red glass needle work bead Peacock hurl collar alternating hot orange and green ultra wire Start with a base of white thread, then tie in two pieces of ultra wire, one orange and one green. Keep them tight together and tie them in side by side along the spine of the hook. Wrap your thread till you are just into the bend, then wrap forward again right up to the eye of the hook and secure with a small whip and hang your bobbin on the hanger. Now form a v about 1/4" wide by separating the two pieces of wire with the two pieces of wire between your finger and thumb. By forming the v it will keep the alternate wraps even. This particular fly is much easier to tie on a rotary vise like Law or Renzetti. Wrap the wire forward keeping the v even as possible. Tie off with a whip just behind the eye. Lastly, take two fine peacock hurls and tie them in to form the collar. Wrap the hurls around your thread to give it reinforcement. Tie off with a whip finish and it's done. The Candycane Midge. One of my favorites and a truly deadly fly! Tie a few up and try them and I'm sure you will soon agree. John "THE FLY GUY" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Report post Posted June 30, 2004 Beautiful fly John!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Peddler 0 Report post Posted July 1, 2004 That truly is a fine looking fly, John! Tonight I wound both wires at the same time and it worked beautifully! I expected a world of problems but it worked like a charm. Thanks for all the great suggestions! I'm going to tie up some of those Candy Canes! It looks killer! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Peddler 0 Report post Posted September 10, 2004 Thanks to your suggestions, tying Copper John wannabe’s just got better for me! Two wires: Even three wires is possible now! Thanks! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest Report post Posted September 10, 2004 Man those look SWEET!!! Three thumbs up! So did you end up tying in all three colors at the same time and then wrap them together up the hook? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Peddler 0 Report post Posted September 10, 2004 QUOTE (SmallieHunter @ Sep 10 2004, 09:32 AM) So did you end up tying in all three colors at the same time and then wrap them together up the hook? Yup! Works like a charm! Thanks! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
artimus 0 Report post Posted September 10, 2004 Nice flies!!! Great tips for sure. Art Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
