Epoxy Thinning

[Mickalo 0]

Was working with some of that Devcon 5min epoxy this morning and was wonder if any one thins this out when using it? If so what do you use to thin it?

 

Thx's

 

Mike

[rockworm 0]

You can use ethanol or acetone to thin epoxy. But note that thinning does not appreciably slow down the curing process. And if you make it too thin the finished product will not be as hard. That's my experience anyway.

[Mickalo 0]

yea I found that out I was using a few drops of nail polish remover, which I believe is the same as acetone, and it didn't look very good when it finally dried. I haven't work with the 5min epoxy before ... and man it sets up fast. Too use to the 2-ton type.

 

thx's

 

Mike

[tidewaterfly 0]

I stopped using 5 min epoxy many years ago, just because it set too fast for my purposes. I only use the 2 ton now. Be careful with nail polish removers, the primarily component is acetone, but it may have other things in it, like oils, that can cause epoxy not to set up properly, so you may end up with it having a sticky surface. If you're going to use acetone, it's best to buy straight acetone. My preference is for the ethyl alcohol, less smell to it than acetone, and it evaporates slower.

 

My experience has been if I need to thin epoxy, I do it at the time I mix it & only use a drop or two. It will prolong the set time some if mixed in initially. How much depends on the type of epoxy you're using. If you mix the epoxy, then several minutes later, as the epoxy starts to stiffen try to add something to thin & retard the set, it really doesn't do much, especially with 5 minute epoxy. The chemical reaction that causes epoxy to harden has already begun once it's mixed, and you won't really delay it by trying to thin it.

 

As rockworm said, anytime you thin epoxy it will have some affect on the hardness or strength after it's cured.

[Mickalo 0]

I stopped using 5 min epoxy many years ago, just because it set too fast for my purposes. I only use the 2 ton now. Be careful with nail polish removers, the primarily component is acetone, but it may have other things in it, like oils, that can cause epoxy not to set up properly, so you may end up with it having a sticky surface. If you're going to use acetone, it's best to buy straight acetone. My preference is for the ethyl alcohol, less smell to it than acetone, and it evaporates slower.

 

My experience has been if I need to thin epoxy, I do it at the time I mix it & only use a drop or two. It will prolong the set time some if mixed in initially. How much depends on the type of epoxy you're using. If you mix the epoxy, then several minutes later, as the epoxy starts to stiffen try to add something to thin & retard the set, it really doesn't do much, especially with 5 minute epoxy. The chemical reaction that causes epoxy to harden has already begun once it's mixed, and you won't really delay it by trying to thin it.

 

As rockworm said, anytime you thin epoxy it will have some affect on the hardness or strength after it's cured.

 

I agree the 2-ton is much easier to work with and used it for allot of different applications too. I wanted to see how well the 5min worked, never used it before. Thinning it made no difference and does give it a kind of "milky" color too, and doesn't seem to harden well either, stays tacky.

 

thanks for the info, appreciate it

 

Mike

 

[fishabuoy 0]

I too have had issues with epoxy being too stiff, or "hot" to flow nicely on more than one or two flies before it starts to really set. I've read that one can warm it and this, while not slowing the reaction set, makes it flow a little nicer during it's "open time". Has anyone tried this method? If so, by what method and how warm does one get it before mixing resin w/catalyst?

 

thanks for replies in advance -

Bob

[Stippled Popper 0]

I too have had issues with epoxy being too stiff, or "hot" to flow nicely on more than one or two flies before it starts to really set. I've read that one can warm it and this, while not slowing the reaction set, makes it flow a little nicer during it's "open time". Has anyone tried this method? If so, by what method and how warm does one get it before mixing resin w/catalyst?

 

thanks for replies in advance -

Bob

 

 

Haven't tried warming epoxy. However, I remember reading somewhere that warming will decrease the time you have to work with the material. This sounds about right.

 

I've stayed away from the five minute epoxy because of the reports of yellowing and cracking. To get the most out of a batch of two ton epoxy it is important to have everything set up so you can maximize your efficiency. If you have to go looking for something you forgot to have in front of you to use the epoxy, you have messed up. In my experience the actual working time for making poppers is at best about half what is advertised and then only with the larger ones.

 

Depending on what size I am making, I get between three and five poppers coated on average... once or twice six. I'd be interested in hearing how others do in this department.

[whatfly 0]

Yes, you can warm the epoxy to make it thinner. Just nuke it for a few seconds, or place the tubes in light boiling water. Have not bothered to compare setting time between different temperatures but 5 minute epoxy should only really be used in situations where you are not working a lot with the material. I prefer 5-minute for poxyback nymphs like the Copper John and the heads on steelhead flies, but use 30 minute or Flexicoat for larger applications such as saltwater patterns.

[fishabuoy 0]

Copper Johns are exactly what I was using 5min epoxy for a few months back, but was really disappointed with the "blobs" that ended up on the wing cases, even just coating about 3 or 4 per batch. I was very careful to get equal amounts of resin and catalyst, and mix well, but the stuff just has no open time, and didn't flow out at all.

 

Perhaps the resin "stiffens" as it ages? I was using a very old plunger set of Devcon 5min left over from some woodworking project. I also wonder - has anyone noticed differences between brands? I've purchased some Zap 5min and was going to try that compared to the Devcon.

 

Sounds like 30min and a rotisserie is the way to go though....especially if you have more than a couple flies to finish off. I'll be adding a tube of slow set to the ever-expanding arsenal of tying stuff. I've never used the 30min, will a rotisserie be sufficient to keep it from flowing all over the place, or are there other tricks I should be aware of to get a even and smooth finish?

[Stippled Popper 0]

Copper Johns are exactly what I was using 5min epoxy for a few months back, but was really disappointed with the "blobs" that ended up on the wing cases, even just coating about 3 or 4 per batch. I was very careful to get equal amounts of resin and catalyst, and mix well, but the stuff just has no open time, and didn't flow out at all.

 

Perhaps the resin "stiffens" as it ages? I was using a very old plunger set of Devcon 5min left over from some woodworking project. I also wonder - has anyone noticed differences between brands? I've purchased some Zap 5min and was going to try that compared to the Devcon.

 

Sounds like 30min and a rotisserie is the way to go though....especially if you have more than a couple flies to finish off. I'll be adding a tube of slow set to the ever-expanding arsenal of tying stuff. I've never used the 30min, will a rotisserie be sufficient to keep it from flowing all over the place, or are there other tricks I should be aware of to get a even and smooth finish?

 

 

The only two epoxies I've used are the Devcon two-ton and the Hobby Towne 30 min. Slow Cure. They performed equally well but I personally prefer the double syringe system in the Devcon.

 

Something like a rotisserie which turns slowly is a big help when working with 30 minute epoxy on flies. Another thing which can help is to work with a lot of light so you can examine the entire covered surface for any dimples(areas which brushing did not result in any epoxy covering the surface). 30 minute epoxy will not be fully cured for a couple of hours. Ignore this fact and you may leave a permanent finger print. I either let my poppers sit for at least eight hours before I touch them or use extreme care in grabbing them by the hook and placing them somewhere else so I can do another batch. When using the double syringe epoxy it may help to use a slow even pressure and press down on each side with a thumb. If one side starts to flow out before the other, additional pressure can be place on the other side to equalize the amount of each component being dispensed.

[Rob Knisely 0]

The use for 5-min epoxy is very limited to most fly-tying. Best uses would be for Poxyback nymphs. A quick thin coat all over the wingcase, then a drop on top of that to bubble up. 4-6 flies per shot.

 

Devcon 2-ton has a 30-min set-up time, and is what I use for most applications, especially for coating foam poppers. It's thin enough to ensure a uniform coat if the fly is on a rotary, and can be heated (when doing a couple flies at a time) to eliminate bubbles. Heating the epoxy does speed up the set-time.

 

The Copper John ideally uses 15-min epoxy, but that's hard to come by. When I tie these, I usually mix up the 2-ton epoxy and wait a few minutes before applying. That's just to give it the "right" bubble effect on about 6 flies.

 

 

 

 

[B. LeBlanc 0]

Anyone try the UV knot Sense? I have been using it with good results. It worked well on the copper johns that i tied with it.

[Mickalo 0]

Anyone try the UV knot Sense? I have been using it with good results. It worked well on the copper johns that i tied with it.

 

have you tried it on bullet head type deer head flies or other types of bullet head flies(thunder creek minnows) .... something that will harden up the head to protect it ?? Would this work for this type of flies ?

 

Mike

 

[B. LeBlanc 0]

I pretty much substitute it for all my epoxy applications now. The only down side is that it has a tacky finish after cured with the uv light. that is solved by rubbing it down with acetone or putting a light coat of hard as nails. The only time i prefer epoxy is on crease flies because of the amount that is needed.

 

I would think that it would be just fine on thundercreeks but i have never really tried it.

[Mickalo 0]

I pretty much substitute it for all my epoxy applications now. The only down side is that it has a tacky finish after cured with the uv light. that is solved by rubbing it down with acetone or putting a light coat of hard as nails. The only time i prefer epoxy is on crease flies because of the amount that is needed.

 

I would think that it would be just fine on thundercreeks but i have never really tried it.

 

I'll have to try it and see how it works.

 

thanks,

 

Mike