Cleaning feathers

[mcbridefliers 0]

My husband was given a bag of feather from a friend. His wife raises Plymoth Rock chickens. There is a bunch wonderful looking grizzly hackles in the bags. We both were wondering if we need to treat them in some way. They are all loose (not on a cape.) Thanks for your help.

[rockworm 0]

Unless they are obviously soiled or bloody they probably don't need cleaning. As a precaution against possible vermin I would place them in the freezer for a few days. Then store them in a zip-loc bag or sealable jar with a few crystals on para-dichlorobenzene.

[utyer 0]

When necessary, I wash feathers out in a jar with warm water, and a little Woolite. Then just rince, and stroke them out to shape, and air dry.

[Guest]

X2 Wash them. You don't know if he picked them from the ground or the bird. Is it worth the risk of not cleaning them or finding out there was a bug in them and it infects all your other materials.

 

Not a real believer in the freezer idea - if they can survive sub zero temps on animals in the winter a freezer can't help much. I wash the materials, put them in borax to cure then I vacumn pack them for a while. Even after that they stay in quarantine. Haven't had any bugs yet and don't want any.

[poksal 0]

If you put them in a zip lock and seal it then place them in the sun.. I don't know the process.. but something happens and kills all living processes.

 

Maybe someone knows the process. .. but something (not just the heat) happens chemically, and there is a name for it. Just in the sun won't do it this process requires being sealed in a transparent container.

 

I soak all feathers I collect in isoprophl alcohol then let them set all day in the sun in a sealed zip-loc. I then store them for the first few days in a sealed zip-loc with a thimble full of alcohol added. I'm told the mites that feathers have do not transfer to us, but they could affect your feather collection and the pet birds in your home.

 

I wash all fur collected in a mix of hydrogen peroxide, baking soda, and some dish soap.. then rinse and comb... then in isoprophl alcohol. Then they get the sealed zip-loc in the sun treatement.

 

 

I leave the zip-locs in the sun a few days if the sun isn't out most of the time... I want to be sure the sun zaps them with those what ever they are rays plenty enough.

[mybadhabit 0]

When I received some from my dad, I froze them for 2 weeks then nuked them for 1 min, no living mite is gonna survive that, nothing that small can survive microwaves for that long, then seal in bags for storage with moth balls.

 

 

Blane

[JSzymczyk 0]

If you put them in a zip lock and seal it then place them in the sun.. I don't know the process.. but something happens and kills all living processes.

 

Maybe someone knows the process. .. but something (not just the heat) happens chemically, and there is a name for it. Just in the sun won't do it this process requires being sealed in a transparent container.

 

 

 

sounds like a great way to grow a noxious bacteria farm... I gotta disagree with you on your method. Would you take some raw food and put it out in the sun in a plastic bag? Of course not. It would spoil very fast-- the heat doesn't get intense enough to kill bacteria, in fact just the opposite, it creates a wonderful environment for them to do their thing. It MIGHT kill insects or arachnids, if it was mid-summer.

 

As to the chicken feathers, seal them up in an airtight container with a handful of Paradichlorobenzene "moth balls" for a week or so, that will kill any arthropods in any life stage which might be present. After that, if you need to wash the feathers, do as has already been stated.

 

If you're SUPER PARANOID, instead of para moth balls, get a "No Pest Strip" which contains dichlorvos DDVP at a hardware or farm store... this will annihilate anything which might be present- and it might give you a headache and damage your central nervous system, but there will be no pests.

 

Alternatively, you could drive your bag of feathers out to the nearest nuclear power plant, and store them inside spent fuel containers for a year or so. Sounds extreme, but not really considering the lengths some folks seem to go when trying to eliminate pests.

[perchjerker 0]

poksal and Jszymczyk;

 

You both have misguided ideas about cleaning and storing feathers of any kind. (I speak as Biologist with 55 yeas experience under my belt, and prior experiences as a boy growing up.)

 

Poksal, whoever told you that mites on birds will not get on people was either smoking 'wacky-terbacky, or drinking some very bad 'stump-water'. They, nor you, have obviously never gone into an old, still occupied, chicken house at night that has had English sparrows going in and out routinely to feed, or have never, as a boy, robbed a sparrows nest. The mites from the sparrows will take over a chicken house and the resident chickens in a New York minute. They will get all over the chickens after nightfall to feed (they are 'out-and-about' after dark) and DO NOT discriminate between chickens and people when it comes to getting their blood meal! (DO NOT ask me how I know!!!) The habit of "dusting" by many bird species is supposedly their way of getting ride of their parasites, such as mites.

 

BOTH:

 

In view of the fact that any arthropods found on the feathers of a bird will most likely be parasitic, and get blood meals from the living bird, there theoretically is no need for any kind of treatment. Simply put them in a zip-lok bag and seal. As there is no living tissue in the feathers, they will soon starve to death. A two-three day stay in the freezer is all that is really needed, if you must treat them.

 

The analogy of putting "food" into a bag and adding alcohol to the putting of alcohol on the feathers will not fly. The reason being that in the one instance, food, there is moisture containing organic material that is still subject to rapid decomposition, whereas, in the case of the feathers, they do not contain any moisture in the many cells that make them up, thus minimizing their subjection to decomposition; i.e., providing a 'food source' for bacteria or fungi to readily and rapidly work on. This does NOT say that they can't be further broken down by the normal fungi and bacteria that perform this role in the environment. Just that it will not do so anywhere near as rapidly on moisture-containing organic matter.

 

With respect to animal parts used in our fly tying, the 'vermin' that they may have when killed are typically blood feeding parasites, and will soon starve when deprived of their food source; and, will not harm the materials in any way. The REAL scourge we face is the fabric moth, or miller as it is know in some areas. This beast gets in once the materials have been stored and no method of protection against them has been provided to keep them from invading. The 'store bought' materials are just as apt to become infested as any 'naturally' acquired materials.

 

The standard material historically used by museums to keep them out of their bird and animal skin collections has been the use of tightly closing cabinets and the use of para-dichlorobenzene crystals, better known as moth balls. However,for the fly tier, one can use that old standby for protecting clothes in a closet, aromatic cedar; shavings, small pieces of the wood, etc.; or even fresh Whole Cloves. The cedar can often be found in some box-type hobby and craft stores, and the Cloves in the Spice section of your neighborhood supermarket. In any case, the material used needs to be periodically replenished, even moth balls. I keep a couple of Whole Cloves in all of my fly boxes as a deterrent for them. They CAN get into flyboxes!!

[poksal 0]

Thank you guys, I stand corrected.

Additionally I welcome the correction as I did what I do not normally do and believed things I had been told. On biological maters I do not have much knowledge with which to discern the good from the bad.

 

However, please clearify one point. Putting fur or feathers without any meat on them in a sealed bag in the sun is clearly not the same as doing so with a food mass as was suggested.

 

To be fair to who told me that method, they said it has nothing to do with the heat, it has to do with certain sun rays through the plastic into a sealed container. Does have any bearing on the process? It supposedly has something to do with a radiation induced chemical change in the gasses in the bag and can also be used to kill life forms in water. I flat do not have the expertieze to know. I do know that sun tea sours in a hury.

 

Additional question, it is my understanding that moth balls are carcinogenic. Any comments?

 

Thank you again.

[perchjerker 0]

With respect to the "...putting fur or feathers without any meat...on them..." not being "...the same as with a food mass...", the key here is whether or not their is any discernible moisture in the items. If the hide, with the fur still on it, has been 'dehydrated' by salt curing, or sun drying, then it will not rot. The same pretty much holds true for bird skins also. However, it is not as big a problem with bird skins as it is with mammal skins, as the former is typically very thin, with very little water in it, making it a very simple process to dry them. Sometimes, simply placing a fresh, defatted bird skin inside several layers of newspaper and putting a weight on it overnight will do the trick, as the newspaper will draw the moisture out. There is much more 'water' in the thicker mammal skin, and it has to be dealt with differently. Thus, salt curing.

 

It should be noted that the hair and the feathers themselves DO NOT have enough moisture in them for them to decay under our standard storage conditions. IT IS THE MOTHS THAT ARE THE CULPRITS!!! MOISTURE OR NO MOISTURE IN THE MATERIAL. These moths will even eat holes through the plastic bags that our materials come in to get at the materials and destroy them for us. Idealistically, we should,perhaps, store our materials in areas that are continuously illuminated by UV light, as it will eliminate the moths, and their young!

 

With respect to the comments about the sun's rays and chemical changes taking place; I cannot give a direct response, but would not be at all surprised if there is not some validity to it. We all should have some basic knowledge of what ultra violet (UV) light does to things. UV light does cause rapid deterioration in many plastics, and an off-gas is typically a by-product of such reactions. The nature of the gas will vary with the plastic polymer involved. Thus, it is conceivable that a toxic gas is produced by such action.

 

Truth be known, I seriously doubt that there is a chemical compound on the face of the Earth, which, if taken, or exposed to in high enough concentrations for a sufficient length time, that WON'T be found to be carcinogenic. It is noteworthy that all things toxic have a time/exposure (concentration) level relationship. Therefore, to my mind, mothball fumes could very well be carcinogenic. If you live in California, they MOST DEFINITELY ARE! Out there, even a new mother's kiss is likely denoted as being carcinogenic!

 

I hope this sheds some light on the matter.

 

Cheers!

[perchjerker 0]

With respect to the "...putting fur or feathers without any meat...on them..." not being "...the same as with a food mass...", the key here is whether or not their is any discernible moisture in the items. If the hide, with the fur still on it, has been 'dehydrated' by salt curing, or sun drying, then it will not rot. The same pretty much holds true for bird skins also. However, it is not as big s problem with bird skins as it is with mammal skins, at the former is typically very thin, with very little water in it, making it a very simple process to dry them. Sometimes, simply placing a fresh, defatted skin inside several layers of newspaper and putting a weight on it overnight will do the trick, as the newspaper will draw the moisture out. There is much more 'water' in the thicker mammal skin, and it has to v be dealt with differently. Thus, salt curing.

 

It should be noted that the hair and the feathers themselves DO NOT have enough moisture in them for them to decay under our standard storage conditions. IT IS THE MOTHS THAT ARE THE CULPRITS!!! MOISTURE OR NO MOISTURE IN THE MATERIAL, These moths will even eat holes through the plastic bags that our materials come in to get at the materials and destroy them for us. Idealistically, we should,perhaps, store our materials in areas that are continuously illuminated by UV light, as it will eliminate the moths, and their young!

 

With respect to the comments about the sun's rays and chemical changes taking place; I cannot give a direct response, but would not be at all surprised if there is not some validity to it. We all should have some basic knowledge of what ultra violet (UV) light does to things. UV light does cause rapid deterioration in many plastics, and an off-gas is typically a by-product of such reactions. The nature of the gas will vary with the plastic polymer involved. Thus, it is conceivable that a toxic gas is produced by such action.

 

Truth be known, I seriously doubt that there is a chemical compound on the face of the Earth, which, if taken, or exposed to in high enough concentrations for a sufficient length time, that WON'T be found to be carcinogenic. It is noteworthy that all things toxic have a time/concentration-level relationship. Therefore, to my mind, mothball fumes could very well be carcinogenic. If you live in California, they MOST DEFINITELY ARE! Out there, even a new mother's kiss is likely denoted as being carcinogenic!

 

I hope this sheds some light on the matter.

 

Cheers!

[JSzymczyk 0]

Dermestids (carpet beetles, museum beetles, etc) seem to be the most common pest I've encountered in materials. I know clothes moths and other pests are out there too. Dermestids are everywhere. You better believe they are in your house. In 30+ years of curating insect collections, and fly tying material... dermestids are frequently encountered. They can devastate an unprotected insect collection in a short time- and natural fly materials too. They eat dead, dry, animal matter- mounted insects or chicken feathers are all the same to them. PDB or DDVP will KILL eggs, larvae, pupae, nymphs,and adults of all insects, and all life stages of other arthropods (mites, etc.) and then repel others from coming. Cedar oil will REPEL them, but not kill anything. This is a major topic of discussion among insect people--- everyone wants a sterilized collection environment without any possible health hazards. Not gonna happen unless you have many millions of dollars to spend. A couple moth balls in your storage containers aren't going to hurt anything but the dermestids. If you have a concern about pests, you have to kill them off first, then keep them away. There will always be some residual moisture and bacteria on any natural material. Placing it in a plastic bag in the sun isn't going to help anything.

[perchjerker 0]

You are absolutely correct about dermestid beetles and the devastation they can do, as well as how common and prevalent they are. However, the crux of this thread has been the cleaning, and preparation for storage, of feathers and fur from freshly, or recently killed, animals. Dermestid beetles are typically not parasitic on living animals of any kind. Therefore, there is little or no likelihood that one will have to kill them on the materials at issue. Thus, PREVENTION, not killing, from getting into the stored materials becomes the Operative word. Given the significance of curated materials, it is equally as important to kill any intruders as it is to prevent them from getting in in the first place. Therefore, the various compounds you reference, which may not be readily available to the flytier, or too expensive, lose their significance for the issue at hand. Things that are readily available, and relatively inexpensive, are the items of greatest interest to the flytier. Moreover, the EPA has banned many very effective vermifuges from public sale. The old Shell "No Pest" strips are one such item so affected. Carbon disulfide is another such compound. Every cattle rancher used to keep cans of it around the barn and stalls. My dad used it regularly to rid the grain silos of his wheat elevator of vermin of every type and kind conceivable. Try to buy it today at your local Farm and Ranch Supply store, or corner drug store.

 

Interestingly enough, dermestid beetles are also often the curators "best friend". They have been, and are, used extensively to clean animal skeletons of any and all flesh, and major museums typically have their own "dermestid colony" just for this very purpose.

 

Absent scientifically conducted controlled study data, I find your concluding statement to be premature.

[JSzymczyk 0]

True I haven't done any control group comparisons of the sunshine/bag method. I did get off track about the dermestids and tineids not usually being present on live or freshly killed feathers and fur. Most folks out there in the world don't go to the trouble to make the distinction... nor do they know/care that "bugs" present on fresh materials most likely are blood feeders and will die off if the materials are dried, as you pointed out. Borax is a good desicant which will get rid of leftover bloodsuckers. I still buy Paradichlorobenzene moth balls at department stores, and I know dichlorvos(DDVP) strips are still available at places such as Lowe's and farm stores. I regularly throw some para moth balls into my containers of bucktails and various feathers, and feel it does a great job of keeping away pests. In insect collections, I've used small pieces of dichlorvos strips, and also paradichlorobenzene in various forms. I don't like the smell, however faint, of the DDVP strips but they work great to keep pests away and kill EVERYTHING which might be in the container. Paradichlorobenzene will cause some types of plastic to "melt" or at least warp, so be careful to do a test before you put it in a plastic container. I haven't seen it to damage most "tupperware" type plastics, but you don't know until you test it.

 

Fatman--- even though these critters live happily on animals in subzero temps, they are down on or near the animal's skin surface in very warm air under good insulation. Just like if you wore a nice insulated jacket on a cold winter day, a bug could live nicely on your undershirt, but not on the surface of your jacket. Freezing also does not always kill ova or pupae of insects though it may well kill adults and larvae. Freezing can be effective, but only if done in several long freeze/thaw cycles which allow the eggs to hatch or adults to emerge, then freeze and kill them again.

 

I have quite a lot of wild materials-- bucktails, feathers, squirrel parts, rabbit parts, etc and really have never had a problem with introduced pests. I believe in a little bit of care in preparation such as washing and blow-drying furs/tails, borax on skin patches of feathers (although necks and saddles you buy appear to be only dried, but I bet they are washed) and keeping things dry, and periodically hitting them with some chemical warfare (paradichlorobenzene balls). It's worked for me so far. Sorry I strayed from the "preparation" to the "curation" of materials.

[perchjerker 0]

You and I share basically the same philosophy, and methods for the care and storage of our materials. As the adage goes: "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure." I do disagree with your thoughts on my point that the 'bugs' that are to be found on fresh kill skins being blood suckers, and will starve in short order, is lost on the audience. I feel that it is incumbent on those of us who, either by education or from experience, or both as in my case, try to clear up all of the misguided, but well-meaning, information that is out there that so befuddles the 'newbies'. Even if we convince just one such bewildered soul, mentioning the point is worth the effort. For those whose bulb does not burn brightly enough to grasp the significance of the point about them being blood suckers, etc., none of the other info posted in response is going to be of benefit either. As they really have no "distinctions to make", they should take it at face value. If they don't care, that is their problem, and further supports my contention that mentioning a long laundry list of various and sundry chemicals also falls on deaf ears.