The gray area of fly tying.

[Beadheads 0]

What is the gray area of fly tying without crossing over to lure making or insect building.? Examples would be using plastic Bug parts, UV resins and all kinds of new synthetics on the market today, Or should it be natural materials like traditional fly tying.?

[lykos33 0]

:lol: What you tryin' to do ...start a war of words? :lol: Bet you get a slew of pros and cons on this one. In my opinion, the tiers from olden day used what they had to make flies to catch fish, today we have more options. As long as you are tying material to a bare hook and it's legal....you're tying flies!

Murray

[shoebop 0]

I don't think there is "a" line to be crossed. Furthermore, I'm not sure we should draw lines. What would be the purpose for those lines? To differentiate between "us" and "them"? I don't care what you tie or fish with or what to call what I'm tying. "Different strokes for different folks". There's room for all of us. I could preach a whole sermon on this subject but I'll just let it lie here.

[tidewaterfly 0]

No offense, but these types of question usually only result in arguments. For me it's only a matter of legal & practical. Legal, in that there are some places that have regulations regarding what a "fly" is, and I won't try to get around the regs. Practical, I won't try casting a 1/4 oz lead head bucktail & call it a fly. That's not practical IMO. I tie flies & I make lures to catch fish, and there is some overlap. I have my own ideas about the difference. For example, I don't consider molded soft plastic replica's to be a "fly" for fly fishing. To me, it's a lure, even when used with a fly rod. Others may have different opinions, and I'm fine with that where the regs allow. I agree with lyko33 too, a fly should be tied or at least constructed by hand, and to me that does not mean soft plastic from a mold. I have molds I use for flies, such as for epoxy bodies, but the difference is that the rest of the fly is tied onto the hook. The molded body is not the complete fly. Splitting hair perhaps, but it's what works for me. Someone else wishing to call them lures or flies, so be it.

 

For tying flies, I prefer to use natural materials, but only because I've yet to find many synthetics that have the same movement as natural. Otherwise, I use synthetics too, because of the limits, such as length, that natural materials have. The rest to me is just personal opinion & preferences. Beyond legal limits, folks should do whatever they want. The only gray areas are created by others, and I could care less.

 

I don't think there is "a" line to be crossed. Furthermore, I'm not sure we should draw lines. What would be the purpose for those lines? To differentiate between "us" and "them"? I don't care what you tie or fish with or what to call what I'm tying. "Different strokes for different folks". There's room for all of us. I could preach a whole sermon on this subject but I'll just let it lie here.

 

Shoebop, I was posting while you were, but cannot agree more! Well said!

[Beadheads 0]

No bad feelings intended, I just want to get some feed back from others on the forum. This is a Fly Tying Forum after all.! Cheers.

[Rocco 0]

It might help to get a feel for how the different state game departme nts defuine a fly vs a lure. I doubt that there is any unifomity but some factors held in common might be useful to note.

 

Rocco

[oldtrout58 0]

What is the gray area of fly tying without crossing over to lure making or insect building.? Examples would be using plastic Bug parts, UV resins and all kinds of new synthetics on the market today, Or should it be natural materials like traditional fly tying.?

 

I would guess it's a moving target.

I don't consider San Juan worms or buggers to be flies per se, even though it takes a fly tyer to make them.

Personally, I don't care what your or anyone else's definition might be.

We are all correct.

For instance, I don't consider using an indicator as fly fishing, but bobber fishing with a fly rod. That's my definition. Occasionally I use an indicator, I have nothing against using one, it just doesn't fit my definition of fly fishing...

Bottom line, I have no answer.

[Kirk Dietrich 0]

:lol: ...In my opinion, the tiers from olden day used what they had to make flies to catch fish, today we have more options...

Murray

 

Lykos, you touched on a point that I believe in very strongly, especially the more old fly fishing/tying books I read. Some of those guys used to solder metal to the hook to weight the hook and make minnow belly shapes! If people that argue about true fly tying would realize this, the argument would not exist.

 

Great statement Lykos.

 

Kirk

[CoachBob 0]

I spun hair for years and it makes pretty flies. Once I discovered foam, spinning hair was a thing of the past. My tying is all about catching fish. I can do that as well or better with foam flies than I can with hair. I admire the folks who take the time (5-10 times longer than foam) spinning hair, it's just behind me.

[tidewaterfly 0]

If people that argue about true fly tying would realize this, the argument would not exist.

 

Kirk, you & I have agreed on many things, and are very similar minded, and I've always respected your comments & opinions but I have to disagree with you on this. The problem is with people in general, and has nothing to do with fly tying specifically. Some will argue about anything. There are some types of people who are narrow minded & close minded, and their attitudes, ideas, opinions & thoughts are to them the only way. If you look around, you'll see this everyday & any place. That's just the way it is. No matter what, some will argue.

 

Over the years I've seen some very nasty arguments on a topic such this. I've posted this story before. A fly shop owner many years ago, told me if I didn't fly fish for trout, I had no business with a fly rod. This is the type of people & attitudes I'm referring to.

 

Everyone has opinions, and that's fine. On sites like this, there are many topics discussed, and again, various opinions are expressed. That's one of the things that makes these forums so interesting, the expressing & sharing of ideas & opinions. However, when someone like that fly shop owner, a person with such narrow minded views adds to the discussion, it's not about sharing, it becomes a demand. He's right, everyone else is wrong. Often the discussion turns heated, ugly & uncivil, and frankly IMO there's no place or need for that type of thing in this sport. As I said, no offense to Beadheads, I'm sure his intention were good, but it's questions like this that often spark those type of arguments.

 

These types of discussions do not have to be about right or wrong, yet often that's how they become. The problem is with people, not the topics discussed, or with this sport.

 

That's why above I expressed concern about arguments. Fortunately, the majority of folks on this site, particularly those who post frequently do so in a manner respectful of others, and discussions remain civil.

 

There is no right or wrong to the opinions given. Opinions are just that. Shoebops post expressed it very well, none of us should be "drawing lines"!

 

Sorry for the rant! It seems the older I get, the more I observe this type of behavior by others, & I've become less tolerant of it, and frankly less tolerant of people in general. I've recently observed & read some things that have just set me off, but that have me very concerned. It seems to me the world is getting more stupid by the minute. Fly fishing & tying are an outlet to me to get away from the ugly things in life, and I hope to keep it that way.

 

Again, my apology for the rant.

[Beadheads 0]

Thanks for all the comments. The question is about fly tying in general and not about the fly tiers themselves, their preferences or what others should or shouldn't do..! Debating on different type questions is beneficial to learning new things and personally I don't think there's any thing to argue about. Just opinions.!

[Kirk Dietrich 0]

If people that argue about true fly tying would realize this, the argument would not exist.

 

Kirk, you & I have agreed on many things, and are very similar minded, and I've always respected your comments & opinions but I have to disagree with you on this. The problem is with people in general, and has nothing to do with fly tying specifically. Some will argue about anything...

Again, my apology for the rant.

 

Tide, you are very right and my comment about the argument wouldn't exist...was more of a sarcastic jab at people like the one in your story that are so close minded as to not think outside of a very narrow path.

 

Kirk

[shoebop 0]

I think we should all let this thread die a quiet death. R.I.P. We are not going to solve anything or come to consensus nor should we try. The only thing we need to fear here is closemindedness and rigid thinking. Most (if not all) here have expressed this same sentiment much to my relief and joy. Lets take down the soapbox before somebody with an ajenda decides to take the floor and tries to force his opinions upon us. I would like to thank everyone who has stood up for common sense and openess here. I am proud to be a member of this group.

[riffleriversteelheadslayer 0]

It ain't fly tying if it isn't a dry fly made of all natural materials there that's my soap box either agree or I will send out the ninjas after you :ph34r:

ok the truth is if you are attatching it to a hook with thread and it isn't against your moral thoughts of fly tying then go for it I know I have used spinner blades rattles lips even used jig hooks before so go for it

[CoachBob 0]

"A fly shop owner many years ago, told me if I didn't fly fish for trout, I had no business with a fly rod. This is the type of people & attitudes I'm referring to."

 

Yep. Ignorance knows no boundaries. That individual obviously never fished on the Gulf coast. Freshwater trout? None here. I also suspect his shop didn't carry any rods bigger than 5wt.