SWAP Hosts and swappers The issue of return postage

[Piker20 0]

Following on from the news that postage rates have risen I felt I would try to cover an issue that has been a concern for me since I started taking part in swaps.

As an international swapper, I struggle to change £ into $ for anything smaller than $20. This is less of a problem in the monthly swap as $20 didn't really cover 12 months even before the rise.

For seperate one off swaps I have always agreed with the host and extra flies have been accepted as return P&P.

 

NOW for the contensious part, HOW many free flies constitute fair return for a cost of $10 (since charge increase)?

I have just hosted a swap and knew from the outset that it would cost me X £ to post back out to folk and extras are a lovely bonus. Now in my swap some were extremely generous, almost to the point of embarrasing me, others sent far fewer extras, some added cash (including $ which now have been recycled to other US hosts!) but I didn't host my swap to receive extras and went into it knowing it would cost me what it cost.

 

But I have always been concerned that if a host accepts me into a swap based on receiving free flies in return for P&P they have an amount in mind. When asked each host has been too much a gentleman to specify 'send me 30 flies you punk' but it does worry me that they feel short changed. Especially with flies state side costing very different rates to UK flies.

 

What are folks feelings?

[Kirk Dietrich 0]

The swap with Dave aka Panama Red was the first swap where the host said to not send postage. All other swaps I've ever been in, the participants were responsible for shipping empty packaging with postage along with their flies. The extra flies for the host were just a little tip for dealing with organizing and sorting stuff out, not at all meant to cover return postage. Dave's swap was the first where the host said do not send any return postage.

Not sure how to handle international mailing though.

 

Kirk

[Piker20 0]

yep Daves was something different. I dont think extras in US has been a means of covering P&P but since the international return labels were scrapped it is a problem for international folk.

[FlyFishin'Jam 0]

It confuses me too, i think bonus flies are okay if discussed with the swapper but i am thinking these days the best method is to paypal the SM the postage total, set it as 'gift' and the swapper pays the tiny fee. Then the return postage is covered and no one is out of pocket. Seems fair, what do you guys rekon?

 

I wasn't too keen on sending massive amounts of extras as my personal stash would be empty but a few as a token thankyou for hosting would be kool?

 

International returns are impossible at my po. Which is why i suggested paypal, but perhaps send an empty package.

[Piker20 0]

I guess Paypal may have to be a way forward.

[flytire 0]

i always send extra flies as a thank you to the swapmeister for hosting a swap not as a method to reimburse postage. there have been other times i have sent swapmeister a dozen flies. not a really big deal to be nice.

 

i dont know where that idea comes from??

 

i have also hosted swaps with 1-2 international swappers and it really didnt send my checkbook into a downward spiral paying for their return postage. however i can see how it might affect an international swapmeister if he had to pay for all of the return postage back to the usa or elsewhere.

 

like mentioned above, maybe paypal is the temporary answer to the postage problem.

[Chefben4 0]

Im with the majority here..

Extras are for the swapmeister for dealing with the organizing, etc. not for postage.

 

As a SM on a few swaps I dont look down on anyone who doesn't include extras. Its a nice gesture but I certainly do not expect it.

 

As far as return postage, swappers should do all they can to make sure they have provided enough. Or work it out with SM to send them money via a "gift" on paypal once the shipping cost is incurred or figured out.

[fishingbobnelson 0]

First, I really like getting flies from around the world. International swappers have always been welcome in my swaps. I have never had a problem with an international swapper not including enough to cover return postage. I do think the paypal idea is a good one. I have usually worked out the details before the swap via PM.

[mybadhabit 0]

I totally agree with the paypal thing, extras are a great bonus, and if it's worked out before hand then I think it's fine. I also know how much of a pain in the a#$ it is to try and find foreign currency in many areas of the world, and that could prove costly in its own way.

 

I too enjoy swapping with others from around the globe, brings new light to me, and new flies from far away. I think I do more collecting of flies than I do fishing with them, some are just too cool to take a chance in losing, and I've gotten some that were just what I view as a work of art.

 

Blane

[FlyFishin'Jam 0]

I do know i owe Chefben a beer or 15 when we are next in Michigan Oh that will be a fun night!

[Jimboha! 0]

I would second the PayPal option, if available in your (international) country. PayPal charges me (with a business account, so I can take credit cards) to receive any money - foreign payments cost $0.39 + 3.9%. That small fee I could easily write off. I also get (about 3%) discount on USPS postage through PayPal so it actually comes out about even. It's possible that there is no fee if you have an individual account, I'm not sure.

 

As for extra flies for 'postage payment': that is always an option, but as I said in the other thread (about high postage rates), it's become much more difficult to be willing to do that since the minimum postage $ has gone up so much. I agree that the swapper/SM should work it out in advance, but as Piker20 said, most SM's are too polite to say what they 'want' in advance, and too nice to let you know afterwards if they felt shorted. And I suspect the swapper might feel extorted/taken advantage of if the SM asks for 'too many.' (Plus, it also depends on the fly: many more #22 Griffith's Gnats compared to #2 Giant Salmon/Stoneflies.)

 

What I fear will happen is that US SM might feel slighted by a particular swapper's fly offerings on one swap, and then simply find reasons to not accept that swapper in future swaps. This makes everyone lose out, so the issue of the 'negotiation' is a big one.

 

Lastly, extras flies for SM: I've always appreciated them (well, in my 6 months a SM) because it is a very nice gesture. But I never feel they are required and don't ever want a swapper to feel that (s)he must or that I would be offended if (s)he didn't. I would happily keep doing swaps forever even if I never got an extra fly. But by accepting flies for redturn postage, it kind of dilutes the value/enjoyment of receiving extras when they are sent by domestic swappers.

 

I wish that none of us had to worry about the (high) cost of swapping, but that's the world we live in.

 

Just my opinion, feel free to disagree or offer suggestions. I have no other solution to offer if PayPal is not viable.

 

Jim

aka Jimboha!

[FlyFishin'Jam 0]

Jimboha! Paypal is accepted in every country, and as i said earlier if the swapper makes it a 'gift' the option appears for the swapper to pay the fee! Which is nothing really for $10 shipping, and should be the manner of doing this sort of business.

 

If you don't have paypal you are probably living in the 80's

[Kirk Dietrich 0]

...If you don't have paypal you are probably living in the 80's

 

Hey, I resemble that comment! Well not totally; I'm not living in the 80's but I grew up in the 70's so its a miracle I finally got PayPal a year or so ago. I really like using it. More and more mail order companies are using it and I wish more would.

 

Kirk

[Nor-viser 0]

I've been involved in several swaps based in Australia and in those swaps I was the international participant. For these swaps I came to an agreement with the swap host to send them tying material they cannot readily get in Australia. I sent the tying items requested along with a self addressed mailer and that worked out just great. The hosts felt it was a fair exchange for the return postage which they paid out of their pocket in exchange for the goods.

[mybadhabit 0]

I guess when it comes down to it, it all depends on what the SM and the swapper want to agree on, be it trade or payment, but it should be done before things can get complicated. I am in no way refering to any swaps that I am now in, but I was really shocked when I mailed a package to a swapper that I had mailed to just 2 weeks prior and was hit with the new postage rates, I was appalled at how much they had risen and became seriously concerned that it would totally cut out our overseas swappers. The new cost of postage for overseas rates basically doubled on Jan. 27, 2013, a package going to Europe costs about $10 now, that's $20 round trip, and makes doing a swap with someone outside the lower 48 very costly, and just about to costly to participate in swaps, but that's just my opinion.

 

Blane