tying with feathers

[phishy 0]

Second attempt.

 

 

Went much better this time around thanks to all the suggestions. Still not perfect, but vast improvement from the first time.

[Crackaig 0]

The point about running before you can walk is very appropriate. How long do you think it takes to tie one of those classics? They are put together in a very meticulous way. This came home to me some years ago when demonstrating at a show. I was tying along side Paul Little, one of the best classic salmon fly tiers around. He said he was going to demonstrate the tying of a Greenwell's glory. I know not a classic salmon fly. It will make the point though.

 

When Paul started to tie I stopped to watch. He started the thread, then began to explain about how the slip wings are formed. At that point someone asked me if I could tie him some Klinkhamers. He wanted 5. Did I want his address to send them? "No," I said, "Come back in half an hour I'll have them done." After I had finished the 5 klinkhamers I went back to watching Paul hackle his Greenwell's Glory.

 

That is the kind of meticulous, even, dare I say it, obsessive, attention to detail he puts into a fly. Every turn of thread is put in exactly the right place. There are no extra turns of thread, Every turn does its job. Spending 30 or 40 hours working on a fly is not unusual for him, Sometimes much much longer.

 

If you are not going to put that kind of dedication into your flies you will not get the kind of results these guys get. Another measure of the lengths they go to. Did you let your skin touch the materials? I've heard these gents debating which kind of gloves are best for handling various materials.

 

That's the world of classic salmon flies. If it is where you want to take your tying then that's fine. It does take a lot of doing though. I'm not trying to put you off it, just to make you aware where you are heading.

 

Cheers,

C.

[yellow bomber 0]

Not sure how it went from playing with slip wings to a 30-40 hr classic salmon fly and having no skin touch a piece of material. People have to start somewhere crackaig, what if the first time you tried something different or just for fun in your early days of tying, someone gave you the advise you just gave? There's nothing wrong with playing around at the vise and in my opinion, no better way to learn. We don't all have the fancy picture taking equipment like some do, nor the time that some do, but being proud of something you've created is worth more than any of that.

 

Definite improvement over the last attempt, phishy, keep working at it and don't get discouraged

[phishy 0]

Thanks Yellow Bomber.

 

I'm a little surprised by that response too lol

My goal at this point (because there seems to be confusion) is to learn how to tie feather wings properly onto a fly, and the first fly I chose to attempt to do this just happened to be one of Davies classics, because I loved how it looked.

 

This second fly is not a classic trout or salmon pattern at all, just something I put together as I wanted to experiment first and foremost with the recommendations and suggestions I was given on HOW to tie feather wings without the feathers twisting or falling apart.

 

Compared to my first attempt, I'd say I did a lot better - thanks to the fine folks of FTF.

[DrVette 0]

You are getting closer to mounting the wing right on this second attempt. It looks like it started to roll over on you while you tightened the loop. 2 possible causes on that come to mind. 1st you need to pinch them together harder between the thumb and finger. 2nd is that when you pull the loop tight make sure you are pulling straight up away from the hook so the thread cinches down more even. I always catch myself letting a slight angle get into my pull to tighten which leads to the same problem. meaning i have to remove the wings and steam them back to shape.

 

The thinner thread idea is good only up to a point. As the thread gets thinner the area of pressure reduces untill you go too small which will start cutting the fibers you worked so hard to marry. This was why they supposedly came up with using wax. It helps reduce friction as you tighten and lessens the cutting tendency of the thread which makes a more even tension around the loop. As stated before, i personally don't see or feel it but can't discount it either.

[phishy 0]

Thanks Dr Vette. Pretty sure I did have an angle with my pull. When you say straight up away, you mean directly horizontal as you wrap the thread, correct? I believe I am pulling towards my body, but down to tighten. Also, you mention "steaming" them back into shape...not exactly sure what you mean? Still learning the lingo. Thank you in advance for your help!

[FrequentTyer 0]

I'm impressed. You already made significant progress between the first and second attempt. Keep at it and keep asking questions and trying to understand your materials and how they behave under different conditions of tying.

There is no magic in classic patterns. Every fly is tied with a series of steps, and each step involves a basic fundamental technique that must be refined and mastered. A trout fly might involve 5-25 steps, while a classic salmon fly may involve hundreds. When I teach beginning tiers I start them on a thread midge. The reason being that the first fundamental they must master is thread control. If you can control your thread, you can tie a thread midge. If the started with a brassie, they would have to learn thread control, tying in materials, wrapping, and dubbing. That is too much to take in and master. The reason some of the folks here are trying to steer you towards simpler flys is that you will have a much harder time trying to master all the techniques you need to finish a classic salmon pattern if you try to do so simultaneously. But what they are also saying (by taking the time to post) is that you have some talent and should try and refine it on a proven path.

Whatever you decide to do, keep asking questions.

Mike

[Bruce Derington 0]

Also need to keep right feathers(near feathers) together and left feathers (far feathers). you can't marry rights with lefts,

[FlyFishin'Jam 0]

It appears like you have dived right in and started to marry sections of feathers together.

 

Preparing the wing.

 

http://www.jpdessaigne.com/Lesmouchessaumon/classic/aileeng.htm

 

Mounting the wing

 

http://www.jpdessaigne.com/Lesmouchessaumon/classic/aile2eng.htm

 

Mounting a second wing

 

http://www.jpdessaigne.com/Lesmouchessaumon/classic/aile3eng.htm

 

It goes on and on plus there are some neat videos.

[hairwing 0]

tying with feathers.....

 

My favorite feather wing. A Green Highlander...I don't tie them I like to look at them! This one is tied by McPhail...http://www.flytyingforum.com/pattern3797.html or take your pick http://www.flytyingforum.com/index.php. That little splash of red veiling the Jungle Cock is Indian Crow. A few years back I heard tell of a skin that was bought for $4500 at a local shop.

[DrVette 0]

^{You shouldn't tighten the loop by pulling downward (ie, pulling the bobbin down) you should tighten the mounting loop going up to change how the thread drags around the tie-in point. While going up it directs the pressure to the bottom of the hook shank and not onto the top of the wing. That helps control the crushing of the wing and keeps it from rolling in the direction the thread goes while tightening. Also the shape of the under-wing helps the travel direction of the married wing so make sure you look at the shape of it BEFORE trying to mount the wings. I have read about a method of mounting each side individually where the thread direction is reversed for one side (wrapping counter clock wise then a wrap-knot to take it clock wise and again with the trapped thread to counter...viewed from rear of hook toward the eye) to finish the fly. BUT it is even harder to do and will drive you nuts trying to figure out the directions from just reading...that technique must be seen to comprehend by most folks. I think it may be that this also holds true for this pulling up in your case...i just don't know how else to explain other than to show you but i don't have any way to do that.}

^{After setting the wing and getting your grip right on it with the left hand take a loose turn around the tie-in point. Once that loose loop is where you want it pinch slightly forward to hold the loop (BARELY) going down by the forefinger and up with the thumb...that move must be made while holding the bobbin above the fly. then pull the bobbin perfectly vertical to tighten the loop. Then take 2 wraps touching the one before but to the right of it BEFORE easing up on the pinch grip of your left hand. Then remove the left hand to see if it was mounted correctly. If not start all over.}

^{This will cause creases in the married wing's fibers which might cause problems with another attempt. When that happens just hold the married wing in steam (over a boiling pot works) untill the creases swell up and go back to shape. If small wings then set them on a screen over the steam.}

[Christopher K 0]

http://www.flytyingforum.com/index.php. That little splash of red veiling the Jungle Cock is Indian Crow. A few years back I heard tell of a skin that was bought for $4500 at a local shop.

 

Not surprising at all, usually you get a lot of about 5 feathers for $90! But that's nothing compared to bustard, a single kori feather will go for over $900 most of the time... I'm actually working on a green highlander right now, been at it for about 3 months now

[DrVette 0]

I'm actually working on a green highlander right now, been at it for about 3 months now

 

Boy how i know that feeling. Bud's test seems to be my fail.

[phishy 0]

Thanks everyone for the links and advice. DrVette, I appreciate you giving me the detailed advice - it definitely helps reading that and getting an idea of where I am going wrong!

 

Hairwing, Green Highlander - beautiful. A girls best friend may not be diamonds after all.

 

Thanks again all. Back to practicing!

[JAMAL 0]

bro, I heard . runing hot water on the feather will 'cure' it. try it bro.