Impressions of the International Fly tying Symposiumch

[Saltybum 0]

One thing to consider about shows for the south. Atlanta is by far the only big city in Georgia and drawing from north Florida is no good as north of Ocala you don't have near the population in central and south Florida. Also need to consider that thousands of northerners are moving to Florida in droves and primarily way south. Within these number are no doubt a lot of former fly fishers who never thought of fly fishing something other than a creek up north.

 

Also during the winter months I'm guessing now maybe millions of well to do older snow birds migrate down for a few months maybe making it a good time for a show. During the summer we have a similar trend of a flow of people coming to central Florida but mostly families on vacation which might be ok to get the younger crowd involved.

 

As bimini and Joes said earlier we would love to see a big show down here. Florida has as much or more easily accessible fishing water than anywhere in the country, just no cold water streams but the variety of available species to catch on fly is quite large. Sadly I think the overall potential here is being largely ingnored.

[mikechell 0]

Sadly I think the overall potential here is being largely ingnored.

GOOD !!!

I don't need any more people crowding my waters.

[Cold 0]

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[rstaight 0]

There you go Cold, identify a market and go after it.

[jimk4 0]

BDE: If your source of information on the success of the IFTS is what you hear from Chuck, then I've got a bridge to sell you, along with a bunch of real estate in Florida where an FFS could be held! Come on, consider the source. Chuck has never had anything negative to say about the success of his shows. When I hear tiers and vendors say that this was the last Symposium they will attend, I'm hearing a much different message than the so-called "official" message.

 

Ask Chuck how many tables were manned by people to whom he had personally reached out and pleaded to come (with financial incentives in some cases), and ask him why he felt that he had to do that.

 

Of course the empty area in back of the aisles has always been there at an IFTS, and it has always been significantly larger than at the FFS, but this year that space was huge. Also, the parking at the hotel and show was much easier this year.

 

I have attended every IFTS since it moved to Somerset, and I have attended every FFS at Somerset during that time, and I have never seen the bookstore anywhere but up in front of the aisles (at other FFS, the bookstore is also set up in high traffic areas, rather than in aisles).

 

I know very well the difference between an IFTS and an FFS since I've attended both for years, and those differences are significant. The mix and makeup of the vendors and tiers is quite different because the target audience is different, as their names make clear.

 

The IFTS is geared towards learning the art of fly tying, and the small number of vendors are usually dedicated to fly tying materials.

 

The FFS is geared towards the sport of fly fishing, and there are a large numbers of vendors selling not just materials, but also rods, reels, waders, and other equipment, as well as clothing, guide services, destinations and accommodations, fishing arts, and just anout anything else you can think of (including some whose relationship to fly fishing, is fishing at all, escapes me).

 

I'm not dissing the 2016 IFTS, I'm expressing my personal disappointment, and that of many others like me who want the Symposium to be as successful as possible. I learn much more at an IFTS than at an FFS, and I get to mingle with those who share my interest.

At this stage of my life, I don't need advice on equipment, clothing, etc., that comes from the FFS, but I go to several of them anyway, simply to support their success, and through them the success of our sport. When I need equipment or information, I go to my local fly fishing shops and support their success, knowing full well that I could get lower prices elsewhere, including the Web.

 

No matter how much I want all these shows to succeed, I'm not going to report false information and give misleading impressions just to create a positive atmosphere. If the short-term success of these shows needs to be built on misinformation and subterfuge, they aren't going to have a future anyway. It certainly would not hurt to see Chuck and Ben come down from their lofty perches, share real information, and seek input from a broad array of the tiers and vendors at the tables on what they would like to see done.

[JSzymczyk 0]

I've been wanting to go to one of these shows for several years, and honestly didn't even know I missed it. It's only a couple hours drive for me and I can afford to stay the night.

 

No great loss to me. The last few years I've probably spent more time on the water using spinning gear than fly gear. My impression is marketing is to blame for low attendance. I practically grew up with a fly rod in one hand and a spinning rod in the other

Fly fishing was just another method to use when the conditions called for it. And I mean 40 years or so back. I grew up tying flies. To this day I don't understand how someone can identify themselves as a fly fisherman if they don't tie their own flies.

In the same train of thought though, I make my own "hardware" lures too... not exclusively of course but I do. As for fly fishing, I have purchased exactly one commercially tied fly in my lifetime. Anyway,

 

today we have such a moronic over-marketed blitz of bullshit when it comes to fly fishing that it's not surprising that people are not making efforts to come into the sport.

If one were to believe the idiocy, we would need a separate specialized rod, reel, backing, line, leader, and shoes for every species of fish we may aspire to catch. I take that back, we would need all that specialized gear for every stream, lake, river, or puddle, in addition to every species.

When I learned, I had a hand-me-down 7-1/2 foot rod and a click-pawl Martin reel with a level line of about 5 wt which cast sort of ok, and I learned to catch everything swimming in fresh water with it. On disgustingly slow days for smallmouth bass or trout, we would go catch carp on wet flies just for something to do, now there is a cult who's members worship them and pay "guides" a thousand dollars to put them in range.

 

I'll never stop tying flies, and hell I tie what works, and what I like, and get creative here and there. We've let ourselves get into too much of a niche, too much of an attitude, too much of a "fly fishing is better than other fishing" mindset. We've done it to ourselves.

 

I would have liked to go just to see the front desk attendant, I think.

[Moshup 0]

Level lines !!! I remember those ! Sure glad I'm not using them anymore.

[Cold 0]

Level lines !!! I remember those ! Sure glad I'm not using them anymore.

That sentiment, combine with the post above it, is (imho) why a lot of things in the fly fishing world are either "hype" or "dying out".

 

It's a small market, and R&D is expensive. So manufacturers have fewer potential buyers of their new stuff across which to divide the costs of development, meaning each individual buyer must pay for more of it.

 

How to convince a potential buyer to pay for all of that when their current stuff already works? Market the hell out of it.

 

This, in and of itself isn't terribly rare, and certainly not unique to fly fishing. Those who are at all involved in photography know this all too well.

 

But what makes the fly fishing market an especially tricky one is the way that so many of the consumers, on an individual level, justify their non-purchases through disparaging innovation, essentially shaming anyone doing anything new (whether new to the market or new to the individual) either to make themselves feel better about not buying into it, or to make themselves look better to their peers...or who knows why...but it's undeniable that a disproportionate amount of fly anglers seem to take pride in a lack of advancement. To compare to photography again, granted, tech is a bit more of an objective field, but when someone is happy with their gear as-is, they *usually* don't go the extra step of including a passive-aggressive attitude toward those who avail themselves of the latest and greatest...they just keep going with their older gear.

 

Whether this is wrong or right is really irrelevant, though, big picture. What *is* relevant is that this is just how it works in a market like this. Lots of new stuff comes along, much of it goes away or morphs into something else, and over time, a small minority of those new things gain enough traction to become a part of the status quo. At that point, it's a slow transition from the average consumer poo-poohing the new thing...to a point where anyone still critical of the thing being a small minority and generally seen as fairly curmudgeonly.

 

Even take this fly line example. Right now, it seems ridiculous to spend $90-100 on a new, high-end, triple textured, tri-colored, compound tapered specialty fly line with all the coatings and micro bubbles, and advanced no-stretch core. Especially when your $40 Cortland Peach works just fine. But that peach line has had to earn it's place, likely being looked on unfavorably by the very guys that swear by it now, for years, because their level line worked just fine for cheaper.

 

Translate this into the implications for the show, and even from our small sample set here, we generally have a group of guys who 1) want to see new and different things while 2) don't want to see change. Granted on an individual level, the position may not be that drastically self-contradictory, but taken as a group, it's a position that's impossible to please.

[mikechell 0]

Level lines !!! I remember those ! Sure glad I'm not using them anymore.

Are level lines completely gone? Some of the $9.00 lines I get from E-bay, I think, might be level lines. I say this because they don't have any designation other than "floating".

I am sure they are not WF lines, since they aren't marked which end goes on the reel. They might be DT lines, I guess.

I haven't inspected them closely enough to see if the diameter changes. Doesn't matter, as I can cast them to the same targets I cast some of the more expensive lines (bought on sales) that I have. Just wondering.

[Bimini15 0]

Are level lines completely gone? Some of the $9.00 lines I get from E-bay, I think, might be level lines. I say this because they don't have any designation other than "floating".

I am sure they are not WF lines, since they aren't marked which end goes on the reel. They might be DT lines, I guess.

 

What did you expect for $9? The $90 lines come with at least two stickers...

[Flat Rock native 0]

 

Are level lines completely gone? Some of the $9.00 lines I get from E-bay, I think, might be level lines. I say this because they don't have any designation other than "floating".

I am sure they are not WF lines, since they aren't marked which end goes on the reel. They might be DT lines, I guess.

What did you expect for $9? The $90 lines come with at least two stickers...

True, but still have "level" s on the bamboos and one STEEL model I inherited; still fish catching technology, right Chell?

[Moshup 0]

Cold,

Started out at the age of 13 with a level line. It sucked ! I am not one to be looking for the latest and greatest ! I learned to fly fish with that line despite it's short comings. My first rod was a 7.00 South Bend which also pretty much sucked but I had a great time with them both because of the sport and two older gents that helped me along. Please don't surmise a person's character by interpreting a comment incorrectly.

[Bimini15 0]

I think that in over-hyping gear on a yearly basis, manufacturers make it more difficult for the public to see the value. Whether the value is there or not, I do no know and it does not matter as much. It is the perception that a new reel is not that much better than my current one, and, in my mind, not worth the expense, that keeps me from buying it.

Most things I need for fishing are not consumables, so, If I take care of my rods reels and lines, I am set for years to come. And you can be sure I am going to take care of them when new ones are so expensive.

[Flat Rock native 0]

Do the organizers of these events distribute evaluations to the participants?

 

What, if anything, does the survey data reveal about the satisfaction of the presenters and the attendees?

 

If no evaluations, why not?

[rstaight 0]

I spent a number of years working the clubs booth at Indiana On the Fly when that show was running. We never received a questionnaire that I know of.

 

You could see the attendance diminish each year. The vendors also dropped to the point the only ones left were within a few hours drive to get there. Even the online folks for materials.

 

But it was never really advertised. The only advertising that was really done was a small flyer posted in a store/shop window. Nothing in the papers, radio or anything else. If these shows are to have turn out, they need to be promoted. I will not use the term successful because that is in the eyes of the promotor.