For guys who tie a Tarpon Fly

[vicrider 0]

I've tied several and there are lots of videos and the "Big Stuff" thread has some of them pictured in there. My question has never been answered in the videos or magazines that I've seen showing the tying of a tarpon fly but something that may not be universal but common is leaving half the nose of the hook sticking out and the fly tied basically on the back third of the hook. Sometimes it's wrapped with colored thread and coated, sometimes just bare. Why is this done to tarpon flies and why would a tarpon turn down a fly of same size and color tied all the way to the front of the hook? Inquiring minds want to know.

[Guest]

Lotta more experienced prolly chime in. My research says originally leaders/bite tippets were snelled on. But that doesn't work well with strait eye. Another reason is smaller flies on bigger hooks and long feathers tied back to prevent fowling. The most plausible is the extra shank creates a kind of bite tippet extension. I copied the traditional on the cock roaches and black deaths, it seamed what to do. You need a shank on others and no tangle is issue anyway. But with modern short hooks tangle no problem; fly size to hook ratio no problem. I lean toward the combined more bite protection/small size fly on big hook and the snell theory don't work.... My $.02.

[kenmorr 0]

When tying classic "Keys style flies" the feathers are tied at the back to help prevent fouling. The shank of the hook, so I've been told,was left bare for those who liked to snell the fly to the leader. IMO snelling the fly on makes it swim like its on a cable (bad idea). As far as covering the shank or leaving it bare, I don't think it makes a difference to the fish.

 

My Background: Guided backcountry out of Papa Joes Marina, Islamaorada for 8 years.

 

Hope this helps

 

Ken

[mikechell 0]

Unlike denduke (no offense) I think leaving the hook bare to snell on a short piece of wire makes sense. From what I understand, there's not a lot of slow speed action required ... they're pulled through the water with speed to elicit a strike. I also understand that plates on the tarpon's mouth and head are like razors, so wire leaders would've made sense. Especially when those flies were invented.

 

As to why a fish might prefer a fly ties that way ... I've always felt it resembled a plentiful bait fish more, with the hook left bare.

The Needlefish.

[Capt Bob LeMay 0]

this thread (from another site...) should answer most of your questions about tarpon flies... It rambles a bit along the way but does cover the ground. I started tying for shops at the very end of the 1970's and tarpon flies were a staple... but it wasn't until I began tying for Randy Towe at Islamorada in the mid eighties that I began to really get into what guides back then wanted in the way of tarpon flies... The shop was the old World Class Outfitters and was born and died long before Sandy Moret's shop was up and running.... Here's that thread

 

http://forums.floridasportsman.com/discussion/253064/keys-style-tarpon-flies#latest

[Guest]

My bad. I was thinking the snell had to go thru the eye causing bad angle but it does not. The eye just keeps the snell from slipping off.

So now the question what knot if not a snell with heavey bite tippets?

Perfection loop with fly in it or figure 8 slip knot? Thanks Capt

[MckinneyLonghorn 0]

I've never fished for tarpon or tied tarpon flies (not a lot of them swimming around in North Texas), but actually have something to add to this thread. In his book 101 Favorite Saltwater Flies, Dave Klausmeyer says about a tarpon fly originated by Joe Brooks, that "there is a bare space behind the eye for tying the fly to the leader using a turle knot."

[Guest]

Longhorn don't see that practical, coming out the eye at an angle...

The only knot issue I see with a snell is one backed to the eye not going thru it creating the same bad angle. Not seeing true snell in my research. You know original hooks were all snelled cuz they didn't have eye holes but flattened end and the snell jammed against it. I think in the beginning all fly hooks were snelled and fly tied over it.

 

All that makes sense on turned eyes and they are all strait eyes. In my search not finding any knots around shanks period. Maybe archaic but ain't finding that either....

 

Looks like double figure eight is best and real easy. Double overhand stick tag thru fly then thru 2 holes in fig 8 then another double overhand on the run and slips down against the first fig 8. Still no definitive answer on the bare shanks. Maybe they pulled their flies crooked with Turle in the old days????

Short flies on big hooks and added bite protection is most of the rational I'm running into...

 

[Capt Bob LeMay 0]

With the advent of fluorocarbon leader material -everything changed (since fluoro can be straightened out perfectly by merely securing the fly on something solid then pulling hard on the leader and holding it there for a moment or two (and so will hard Mason mono -which is what many use for their class tippets, my normal big fish leaders are 20lb Mason tied to an 80lb fluoro bite tippet).... That's also why tarpon leader stretchers have fallen out of favor (I have two of them - but they're simply not needed any more... Some choose to snell to this day - but I long ago quit it as soon as fluoro came along (and here I'm talking Seaguar leader material - lots of so-called fluoro available today that isn't decent quality and to be avoided...). These days I normally use an improved Homer Rhode loop knot for my bite tippets - and it works like a charm day in and day out- no matter how heavy your bite tippet is... The original Homer Rhode loop knot will work as well, but it's about 10% weaker in use...

 

Not sure where you can find a tutorial for the improved version - but almost any decent loop knot with a fluorcarbon bite tippet will do just fine....

Here's a pic of leader wheels (pairs are looped together in a continuous chain, each pair is a double length bite tippet with a class tippet on each end - I keep them in 20 to 40, 30 to 60, and 20 to 80lb spools ready to go..). In use you simply pull off half of a pair then cut the bite tippet in two and you're ready to go. All of these heavy fish tippets are then looped to a permanently spliced butt section which is a bit heavier than most would guess.... For a 12wt line we're using six feet of 60lb mono spliced directly to the fly line with a surgeon's loop at the bitter end for quick leader tippet changes, as needed... For a 10wt line it's five feet of 50lb...

 

[Swamp Fly 0]

Capt Bob, those types of spools are my favorite way of storing pre-tied tippets. The only difference is that I tie a sacrificial loop in the end of my tippet so I have loop to loop connections. That way all of the tippets feed off of the spool bimini/surgeons end first. I just cut the aforementioned loop when it comes off of the spool. I take a zip tie and loop it through all of the different spools to make a loose loop and then a mini carabiner clips the whole thing to a tackle bag or someplace within easy reach. That way I don't "forget" them and they don't eat space in my bag. The zip tie is just what I had laying around since I always have a small bundle in my boat/bag/truck and the carabiner costs about $1 to replace every few years. My only complaint is that the spools are not made of the most forgiving material and invariably I break one or two every year through some form of my own negligence. Have you found a tougher version of these spools, or perhaps even an after market spool that doesn't come filled? I've considered having some 3d printed out of a more forgiving material but that has not happened yet (project #6743).

 

Incidentally I keep most of my flys in lure/soft plastic binders that I bundle together and clip to my bag the same way as the spools.

 

Improved Homer Rhodes animation:

https://howtoflyfish.orvis.com/fly-fishing-knots/improved-homer-rhode-loop-animation

 

Edit to add: Most of my tippets are just plain old Ande line in various strengths without a bite tippet so I don't have a replenishing supply of spools. Probably less of an issue for you.

[cphubert 0]

Thanks Capt Bob and others, great history lesson and information. I regret not spending the time to fish when I was at NAS Key West but plan on spending some time down in Florida in the next few years. This forum is a great place to learn.

[Guest]

This place is something! Great info from great sources. Thanks for giving your time fellas. Google is ok but personal experience for help trumps everything!

[vicrider 0]

Thanks a lot for all the info guys. My only comment, which was touched upon in a few places, is about using that bare hook area to snell a leader. This would make a lot more sense to me if you used a down eye or an upturned eye. Then your leader would have a straight shot through the eye and spliced to shank. When I was doing a lot of steelhead and salmon fishing the guys in our group swore by a hook in size 4 or size 2. Don't remember brand but the one we loved only came with a straight eye or down eye. I would sit and take a 100 box of these and heat and bend the eyes up on them. This allowed us to run line straight through eye, snell leader on shank, then slip a couple of pieces of yarn under leader behind eye and tighten into a bunch and trim into an egg shape if you were ambitious or water was really clear. People have asked about weakening hook by heating and bending but stress was direct to shank and not on eye at all.

 

Mike Chell, your pictures are a good example of what I had previously (maybe still do) thought was the reason behind the long bare snout. They definitely do match the profile of the "needlefish" bait fish you show, or whatever name it's called by.

[Guest]

Old way snell on eyeless hook and 50# snell on a cock roach....Guess what the snell is actually a nail knot with the hook shank working as the "nail" while tying and nothing thru the eye but jammed to it. Kinda tricky with the 50# but pretty easy.... But why? You want a loop for fly movement anyway. I'm done.