Wet fly wings

[vjc 0]

I need some expert advice. I have been trying to tie winged wet flies like the Ray Bergman flies seen on donbastianwetflies.com. I have used up quite a few mallard quills and flanks and some turkey quills and pheasant tails but I have no decent looking flies yet. Some are probably fishable but the wings are really lousy. I have read a lot of instructional material and looked at a lot of youtubes but cannot produce a good wing.

 

My question is about the materials themselves. I use quills bought on ebay and bags Hare Line mallard flanks. The flanks are very curved witch makes them difficult to fold. I have also tried cutting slips from them but again, the curve seems to keep them from being symmetrical. Do I need to buy better feathers? Do I need to be more selective with the feathers I have? Are these just too difficult for my experience? Is it just a matter of practice and more practice?

[Adam Saarinen 0]

I'm no expert! And i've only tied wet fly wings on march browns, last time was adout a year ago! When i first tied them they looked crap! I was using phesant tail & had to check the film again! I was holding the base of the wings around the shank when i tied them in. Wrong! When i held the wings tight between my thumb & forefinger on top of the shank as i made a couple of wraps to ty them in they looked much better! I hope this helped!

[gunpowderleader 0]

There are many tricks to setting wings properly. The first place to start is with the best quality feathers that you can find. After that patience is a virtue. Making sure each wing slip is matched in size and length to its partner is important. A very helpful bit of advice that I learned from Don Bastian is to set the wings using your thumb and middle finger instead of your index finger. You have more control over the feathers this way. Setting wings from a quill and from a flank or turkey feather require different techniques to make them set correctly. Do not try to apply one technique to all the feather types. With quills pinching in place atop the hook, a wrap of loose thread also pinched in place with the fingers, pulling steady and evenly upward will collapse the quill rather flat to the tie in point. With mallard flank and turkey using both hands, one controls where the wing set, the other feeds the butts of the feather to the tie in point, Gravity will pull the bobbin down as you use your hands to control the feathers positioning, check your mount then finish setting the wing with additional tight wraps of thread I am sure that there are many ways to successfully mount wet fly wings, these are the ones that work well for me. Above all though practice, practice, practice will get you there

[SILKHDH 0]

Are you spraying the feather with clear krylon or any type of product to help keep the fibers of the feather from splitting apart. I thought you were suppose too. I always spray my duck wings and turkey tails first. Then the slip of feather doesn't collapse then you bind it down. Don't quote me here. It's just what I do. Maybe you do this and that's not problem your having. And maybe I don't do it right either.. LOL

[gunpowderleader 0]

Do not spray the feathers. This will cause you more problems then it will ever hope to solve. I have seen this recommended for wing cases on nymphs. I advise against it and do not do this to any feather. I tie many quill wings a year, not only for wets, but also for classic dries both English and American. With practice a feather will do almost anything you want.

[vjc 0]

I'm no expert! And i've only tied wet fly wings on march browns, last time was adout a year ago! When i first tied them they looked crap! I was using phesant tail & had to check the film again! I was holding the base of the wings around the shank when i tied them in. Wrong! When i held the wings tight between my thumb & forefinger on top of the shank as i made a couple of wraps to ty them in they looked much better! I hope this helped!

Thanks Adam, I was making the same mistake but have figured that part out except now I wonder how some tyers are able to get the wing to cover just a slight amount of the body just behind the tie point.

[vjc 0]

Are you spraying the feather with clear krylon or any type of product to help keep the fibers of the feather from splitting apart. I thought you were suppose too. I always spray my duck wings and turkey tails first. Then the slip of feather doesn't collapse then you bind it down. Don't quote me here. It's just what I do. Maybe you do this and that's not problem your having. And maybe I don't do it right either.. LOL

Thank you SILKHDH, I have to admit that I have been tempted to do that but somewhere I read, as gunpowderleader points out that it is bad practice.

[vjc 0]

There are many tricks to setting wings properly. The first place to start is with the best quality feathers that you can find. After that patience is a virtue. Making sure each wing slip is matched in size and length to its partner is important. A very helpful bit of advice that I learned from Don Bastian is to set the wings using your thumb and middle finger instead of your index finger. You have more control over the feathers this way. Setting wings from a quill and from a flank or turkey feather require different techniques to make them set correctly. Do not try to apply one technique to all the feather types. With quills pinching in place atop the hook, a wrap of loose thread also pinched in place with the fingers, pulling steady and evenly upward will collapse the quill rather flat to the tie in point. With mallard flank and turkey using both hands, one controls where the wing set, the other feeds the butts of the feather to the tie in point, Gravity will pull the bobbin down as you use your hands to control the feathers positioning, check your mount then finish setting the wing with additional tight wraps of thread I am sure that there are many ways to successfully mount wet fly wings, these are the ones that work well for me. Above all though practice, practice, practice will get you there

Thank you gunpowdereader, I'm going to try the middle finger thing this afternoon. I'm also going to pay attention to the technique. I have tried the ones you menion and find the bobbin weight much easier to get the first wrap on but then the second wrap messes things up. Maybe I should be using wax?

 

You mention "pulling steady and evenly upward". On the first wrap I have been going up, around the top then straight down. Are you saying I should go soft around the top, down soft, then up in front?

 

Where is a good place to buy quills and flank feathers? It seems there a lot of grey out there but I can't find white or blue mallard quills.

 

Thanks again, Vince

[Dave G. 0]

Tying in sprayed turkey fiber slip pairs is different from tying in natural ( no spray). The weight of the bobbin will pull the fibers down on the hook in the later. With spray will take much more pressure to pull it down and in fact may not pull down quite as flush to the top of the hook shank as natural will. Natural I leave longer, more waste end to trim off. If you leave the waste too short you may find more tendency for wrap under the hook shank . Of course the trade off is the wing lasts better with spray. .

 

I never spray coat Mallard Flank, i haven't found a need to.

[Crackaig 0]

Garbage in garbage out. No tying technique will ever improve the quality of the material you use. So yes you do need better materials. For slip wings you need the whole wings not just the quills. Then you can take the quills from the wings so that you get a pair. Many wings are sol as a left and a right do not come from the same bird. A material wholesaler will get a job lot of wings, put one left and one right in a bad and sell them as a pair. Not good enough. You need both wings from the same bird. Once you have the paired fathers it is a good idea to prep them like this.

 

Something I was shown by Donald Downs many years ago is to cut through the stems, rather than cut the slips off the stem. Then when you come to mount the wings the stem holds the fibres in line.

 

For duck flank wings there are not many usable feathers on a bird. For a bronze mallard wings you will get you will get about six good feathers off a bird. If you want to make them as slips then again you want the two feathers from either side of the same bird. If your feathers are bent or ovally curved steam may be your friend. Steam them and flatten them out while they cool.

 

As for the actual mounting of them I think you have been well advised. Good handling comes with practice.

 

The best source for top quality natural materials is Steve at Cookshill Fly Tying, either get them from him, or make friends with someone who shoots the birds you want.

 

Keep practising and you will soon be producing them as if you had never struggled.

Cheers,

C.

 

 

[ecberr 0]

I am also not an expert, however I recently went through what you are going through. After you have tied the wings on, if you are not satisfied, do not finish the fly, just undo your thread wraps until you can remove the feathers and try again. If you don't like the way it looks before you cement the head, you won't like it after. It may take several tries. You may get so frustrated that the best option is to walk away from the vise for a while. You don't want a collection of flies that you're not proud of, or that you won't fish.

When I first attempted these flies, I was using goose quills, and turkey tail, neither of which were worth using. I stopped at a fly shop and bought a few pair of mallard quills and they made a big difference. Patience and practice.

Davie Mcphail is very good at tying slip wings, and his youtube videos helped me tremendously with technique.

Good luck, stay with it!

[vjc 0]

I am also not an expert, however I recently went through what you are going through. After you have tied the wings on, if you are not satisfied, do not finish the fly, just undo your thread wraps until you can remove the feathers and try again. If you don't like the way it looks before you cement the head, you won't like it after. It may take several tries. You may get so frustrated that the best option is to walk away from the vise for a while. You don't want a collection of flies that you're not proud of, or that you won't fish.

When I first attempted these flies, I was using goose quills, and turkey tail, neither of which were worth using. I stopped at a fly shop and bought a few pair of mallard quills and they made a big difference. Patience and practice.

Davie Mcphail is very good at tying slip wings, and his youtube videos helped me tremendously with technique.

Good luck, stay with it!

Thanks ecberr, Yes, I am a fan of Davy McPhail too. leaned a lot there. I have been doing what you suggest. I'm only keeping some of the not so goods that are good enough to fish but I hope to eventually have some I am proud of. I'll have to find a fly shop around Buffalo next time I'm up there. So far just using ebay.

 

Vince

[vjc 0]

Garbage in garbage out. No tying technique will ever improve the quality of the material you use. So yes you do need better materials. For slip wings you need the whole wings not just the quills. Then you can take the quills from the wings so that you get a pair. Many wings are sol as a left and a right do not come from the same bird. A material wholesaler will get a job lot of wings, put one left and one right in a bad and sell them as a pair. Not good enough. You need both wings from the same bird. Once you have the paired fathers it is a good idea to prep them like this.

 

Something I was shown by Donald Downs many years ago is to cut through the stems, rather than cut the slips off the stem. Then when you come to mount the wings the stem holds the fibres in line.

 

For duck flank wings there are not many usable feathers on a bird. For a bronze mallard wings you will get you will get about six good feathers off a bird. If you want to make them as slips then again you want the two feathers from either side of the same bird. If your feathers are bent or ovally curved steam may be your friend. Steam them and flatten them out while they cool.

 

As for the actual mounting of them I think you have been well advised. Good handling comes with practice.

 

The best source for top quality natural materials is Steve at Cookshill Fly Tying, either get them from him, or make friends with someone who shoots the birds you want.

 

Keep practising and you will soon be producing them as if you had never struggled.

Cheers,

C.

 

 

Thank You Crackaig, I like the way you prep. and cut slips. I'll try that next. I will contact Steve about getting some quills too.

And thanks for the info on curved flanks. The ones I have from Hare Line are all very cupped and curved butt to tip. Guess I'll have to try steaming.

 

Thanks again,

 

Vince

[vjc 0]

There are many tricks to setting wings properly. The first place to start is with the best quality feathers that you can find. After that patience is a virtue. Making sure each wing slip is matched in size and length to its partner is important. A very helpful bit of advice that I learned from Don Bastian is to set the wings using your thumb and middle finger instead of your index finger. You have more control over the feathers this way. Setting wings from a quill and from a flank or turkey feather require different techniques to make them set correctly. Do not try to apply one technique to all the feather types. With quills pinching in place atop the hook, a wrap of loose thread also pinched in place with the fingers, pulling steady and evenly upward will collapse the quill rather flat to the tie in point. With mallard flank and turkey using both hands, one controls where the wing set, the other feeds the butts of the feather to the tie in point, Gravity will pull the bobbin down as you use your hands to control the feathers positioning, check your mount then finish setting the wing with additional tight wraps of thread I am sure that there are many ways to successfully mount wet fly wings, these are the ones that work well for me. Above all though practice, practice, practice will get you theUs

Using the middle finger is definitely better. Here is what is supposed to be a kingfisher butcher. I think the wings are too long and there is a split but it is my best so far.

[utyer 0]

It took me more than 50 flies before I was happy with my wings. They do take practice. Of course, all the rejects are fine for fishing, just not what I wanted for "show flies." After the first 50 they started to come together, and after about a hundred, I could turn them out pretty well, I still get rejects, and "fishing" flies, but I am now happy with 60 to 70% of my wet fly wings. If I ever get back to tying them on a regular basis, I hope to bring that percentage up to 80 or 85%. Right now, I am only tying big Saltwater flies, and bass bugs.

 

Good quills from the SAME bird are a big help. Remember that there is only about a third of the quill that will make good wings.

 

When you are setting your wings, you make your first wrap and pull it tight (I usually go all the way around and pull straight up.) Then a second wrap at the same spot, which should be enough. Now you can let go, and examine the wing. If all looks good, You can make more wraps, but ALL the rest of the wraps have to be in FRONT of the original set wraps. Any wraps behind where your first wing set wraps will mess up the wings.