SalarMan

One thing I do know. He is a "member" on the Fly Tying World web site but does not participate. He made a conscious choice after some of the unpleasantry on the old Classic Fly Tying site to back away from the internet with the exception of some things on Facebook. Can't say I blame him on a certain level, but like many, I miss his work online. Each Christmas I get a card from him and Nathalie and there is always one of his flies enclosed. Needless to say that is a special treat.

Alf - Any luck finding Geert? - George

Interesting...I just may have to give this a go. I will add when I do the soak, shape and dry thing on a flat piece of Plexiglas I do 2 or 3 dozen at a time. so I always have what I need on hand a ready to go.

Sandan - There is no doubt you have taken to tying classics on a serious level, so I believe it is time for nitpicking the minor details that make for more refined flies. I hope you don't mind. I'll start with the topping. Your prep work is very good, but I think the curve is a little too pronounced. Something closer to riding along the top of the wing would be ideal. A bit more of a curve to the wing would help to coordinate with the topping. Finally...try to get that same cascade effect in the tail as well. The two similar looking feathers help with the complete look of the finished fly. Well done to this point...well done indeed.

Happy New Year to you one and all !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Accessing that fine old site has unfortunately been next to, if not totally impossible. So much good information gone due to an incredibly inept, uncaring administrator. Lots of the former participants are now either on Facebook, some are here, many on Fly Tying World and a few have started their own small internet groups. Loss of the other site is a sad state of affairs...but hey I enjoy the happenings here and FTW. Good folks and plenty of useful/fun communications.

Geert and I keep in regular touch ever since the old Classic Fly Tying site went down. If you wish to continue to see his work, he has a Facebook page. I DO NOT have an account on that site and I never will...so I cannot give specifics on accessing his page. Good luck George

I just snapped a couple of photos of my tying desk. The one photo with the lights angled toward the camera DO NOT show the components at all. The long rectangular fixture is composed of both cool white and soft white leds. The round fixture has an 8" diameter cool white fluorescent bulb and a soft white led bulb. These combos are darn near prefect for color identification and comfort on the eyes. They supply plenty of light and that flat white surface just brightens the entire area for the better. The office window at my back faces southwest and supplies another source of light to meet my crazy more the merrier approach to this. Hope this helps you settle on what will work for you. George

Same general idea...just the finish is flat (matte) and NOT shiny. The bigger the better too......

One final thought from someone who is certifiable when it comes to lighting and magnification for tying. The color of your desktop is also part of the equation. Years ago I purchased 30" x 40" piece of flat white Corian to use on my tying desk and have NEVER regretted the money spent. No need to go that far if the budget doesn't allow...just go to the local dollar store and buy a piece of white 1/4" thick foam board which is usually about 24" x 30" and tie with that under the your vise base. It is beneficial from the standpoint of adding to the effectiveness of you lighting...plus it reduces shadows a great deal which is also very helpful for your tying and comfort for your eyes. I repeat...buy readers with anti-reflective coating. Ask any ophthalmologist and they will tell you the same thing.

I use readers in 3.25 magnification. They do all I need from the smallest trout flies to my big classic salmon flies. I recommend getting a pair with anti-reflective coating....that makes for greater comfort during long time over the vise. Hope this helps.

Bruce is right. I am always amazed what I see wrong with things I tie in my photographs that escape the naked eye. Put those photos to good use!!

Sure can't argue with Bruce's comments...well done.

Okay Sandan - Proportions are looking good and there is a distinct improvement in your body work! Man how I wish you lived next door so I could show you how to prep golden pheasant crests...but I will try to explain. Take some of the crests from the head and soak them in warm (not hot) water for an hour or so. then one at a time place them on a pane of glass, plexiglas or a synthetic cutting board. With a bodkin carefully shape them to the curve you want and also fan the fibers to create the cascade effect that is so pleasant to look at on the finished fly for both the tail and the topping...photo attached of a fly to illustrate. Allow to thoroughly dry before placing then in a plastic box...and they are ready to go. When tying them in be sure to avoid catching any of the fibers under your thread so you don't have any wild fibers sticking out at odd angles. Just tie on the center quill (rachis) itself which makes for a better appearance. The tippet underwing is fine, just make it long enough so the second bar is directly over the herl butt. Finally the wing. Length is spot on, but it needs to be a bit wider. For instance on a 1/0 through a 4/0 hook the wing is usually composed of 24 fibers depending on the material used. Goose my require a couple more, dyed turkey require one or two less. Enough for now but for one question. Did you order from feathersmc through the site or talk to John McLain on the phone? I know he ALWAYS ships priority mail so the wait should not be more than 2 to 4 days. I will send you his number via a pm.

I always thought it was Winston Churchill who said diplomacy is being able to tell someone to go to hell and have them ask for directions

I would NEVER violate those guidelines!!! I would only respond when asked for my thoughts or ideas...period. Diplomacy, tact and politeness are MY guidelines for sharing the knowledge others have shared with me........ If someone wants input they'll ask. If not then I have nothing to say.🙂

I've been looking at various flies from our quite enthusiastic and prolific tyers on this particular part of the Fly Tying Forum site. Quite often there is a request, desire, expressed need...well you get the idea...regarding help with a fly and the work that was done. SERIOUS comment is a difficult situation for anyone I gather, at least it is for me. When I see obvious flaws, followed by questionable suggestions or tips on correcting a tyer's issues I tend to back off and stay out of the fray. I do not wish to either hurt someone's feelings or put down their pride in their efforts...but then I remember early on being the recipient of some strong criticism and thinking how harsh the person was. I learned very quickly there was never any malice or bad intent on the part of the person making the comments...just a true desire to help me improve my tying and to progress to a level they believed my abilities could and should take me. I have over these years become quite friendly with virtually all of the folks who have been a great help to me despite being separated by time and distance. On that note, I wonder what those of you who follow the Artistic & Classic Salmon Flies part of the forum think. In other words...should I open my big mouth 😁 and offer some well intended if sometimes blunt opinions? Those thoughts would ALWAYS be with honest intent to help...period. As I said elsewhere here...my desire is to pass along the knowledge that has been passed along to me by folks from literally all over the planet. I don't wish to be THE classic salmon fly guru or anything...I just want to share the good fortune I've had along the way. PLEASE...feel free to be honest, open and blunt with any and all thoughts or opinions!!!

I tend to think of what we do and say here as passing along knowledge as opposed to advice. I am glad to be able to share what so many folks have taught me over the years...and places like this make it a pleasure. I hope others agree and will share their knowledge and experience as well.

Almost 2 years ago at this point a friend approached me about getting a group of tyers together focused specifically on Classic Salmon Flies. It got off to a relatively good start with a dozen or so tyers, about half of which were new to tying these flies. Summer of 2019 and fishing season intervened and we took the summer off. Well it wasn't long before the winter of 2019/2020 put the damper of things with the Covid19 pandemic rearing its ugly head...and the Valley Forge Atlantic Salmon Fly Guild ceased to exist. I continued to get together with a couple of fellows for some one on one sessions due to their serious interest. So...where am I going with this? At the start of it all I put together a basic document to try and steer the newbies in the right direction to get them started. I am going to...hopefully...attach that document for those of you who are new to this genre and might find it useful. Cheers, George Basic Classic Salmon Fly Material List (2) (1).docx

Tell McLain George K sent you. I know him well and he will appreciate that.

I prefer wooly nylon thread because it is finer diameter and that gives better control of the diameter (size) of the underbody and it also seems to wrap smoother.

Regarding the wings splitting...now we are getting into the area of material quality. I imagine you are using goose shoulder which is easy to use but can vary widely in quality. Your options are either swan (hard to find) or dyed white turkey. John McLain's (feathersmc.com) goose shoulder is probably the best you will find anywhere, plus his dye work is second to none. He also has a respectable selection of turkey at this time. And yes too much handling can cause wing problems...I know from experience LOL.

Sorry for the delay in responding, but sometimes life gets in the way. I've attached a couple of photos showing the current state of affairs on my tying desk. The agate burnishers I use are shown to illustrate the various sizes available. Now...They will not compensate for poor tying, only smooth and polish what you've done to a certain degree. It is important to make the underbody as flat and flawless as possible and the burnisher will fine tune your work, which means the finished body can also be completed smooth and shiny as well. Hope this helps.

Okay Sandan...I will add a few more thoughts focusing on small details, plus a material and tool tip or 2. Tool tip #1 - On that well known auction site type burnishing agate knife into the search box. They are all I use to burnish my flies. The flat gray ones are my choice. Material tip #1 - On that same site type wooly nylon thread into the search box. Buy a spool (cone) of white. You will have to transfer this stuff onto tying sized spools to use it with a bobbin, but when you pay less than $10 for several thousand meters...need I say more? When wrapping the underbody, be sure to keep the material flat for smoothness. When you have what you're looking for...burnish it. Then do the same with the finished body. Be patient and you will be happy with the results. The tip/tag/tail/butt area are much closer to the correct traditional length. Try to make the floss smaller in diameter. The body must be a little larger than that for proper appearances. Finally for now - the traditional length of the tail is 1 1/2 times the gape (gap) of the hook. Everything will follow and begin to fall in place after that.

Okay, I'll address what I consider important points to move you on your way...starting with something simple...wax. DO NOT use modern tube wax. It is too slippery for the uses in tying these flies. You must use old fashioned cake wax of the type John McLain sells at Feathers Mc. Next - Hooks...Go with traditional salmon fly hooks rather than AJ Spey type for traditional salmon flies. Daiichi 2441 should work well enough in sizes 1/0 or 2/0. When you get the hooks lay 5 or 6 on the glass of your copy machine and make a copy or 2 of the hooks. Then use a pencil to lay out your fly's shape and proportions. This will give your mind's eye an image of what you want the finished fly to look like. Nothing detailed, just basic shape and size. I have been guilty of the rushing thing. If you own 2 vises that would help. Work a little on the fancy stuff, then let it sit a bit while you do some regular tying. Don't hesitate to use a ruler for some things. Your bobbin is also a measuring tool...as in a plumb bob. The fly begins over the point of the barb, then the tip/tag/butt area finish over the point of the hook. Use of silk floss will make it easier to achieve a smooth finish to the body. Use fine diameter Uni-Stretch for the underbody and be sure to burnish both the under and finished bodies. Any flaws on the underbody show through on the finished body. I've attached a photo of a partially completed body to illustrate. Use of the ruler...I always allow 5/32" for the head, plus about 1/16" for the throat. Believe me I could go on for pages and pages, but I'll stop here for now. There is much to learn and the journey is part of the fun. I always say learning to tie these flies is a marathon not a sprint. Patience my friend. Cheers, George