Great chat with Charlie Collins

[Modad2010 0]

 I had just recently used Collins hackle for the first time and had noticed that the hackle didn't look as "full" as it did when tied with some hackle from Whiting that I had. I was a bit concerned about how well the fly would float, as one of my favorite spots to fish is a rather quick flowing area of the stream. I was very pleased  not only with the flotation, but the durability of the hackle, as I landed several fish with the fly looking no worse for the wear. The other day I made a pre-order phone call to Charlie and had asked him about about barb density and it's usefulness in flotation. I also mentioned how surprised I was at how well his hackle floated the flies I tied. His response made me smile and think a bit about what he said. Charlie asked me, " What are we trying to do when we tie a fly? Are we trying to imitate an insect or a scrub brush? If we tie a fly in a way to imitate an insect we shouldn't need a scrub brush to float it! "  I ordered six #3 necks and saddles and one commercial neck that day to go along with the five Collins neck/saddles that I already have. Now whenever I'm thinking if I should put a couple more turns of hackle on I'm going to smile and ask myself, " Are you imitating an insect or a scrub brush? " 

[DarrellP 0]

That is funny.

[SalarMan 0]

I had the pleasure of talking with him on a number of occasions at The Fly Fishing Show and when he was a guest speaker at my tying club. Great guy who as you illustrated so well understands what make a fine hackle for fishing flies...not show pieces.

One great line when he was at the club. Someone asked if he'd brought any hen necks with him along with his usual stock of rooster necks and saddles. He replied with a smile...I didn't drive all the way here for a little pocket change, I came to make some serious money.

A true gem in the sport.

[DFoster 0]

Welcome to the site Modad- 

But Mr. Collins some of my most effective dry flies look more like scrub brushes than insects!  😜  

[Modad2010 0]

1 hour ago, DFoster said:

Welcome to the site Modad- 

But Mr. Collins some of my most effective dry flies look more like scrub brushes than insects!  😜  

The question is - do they have to? 😀

[flytire 0]

too bad he went out of business

[DFoster 0]

52 minutes ago, Modad2010 said:

The question is - do they have to? 😀

A good question for the fish-   I read somewhere once that Lee Wulff once said that the Royal Wulff/Coachman pattern was effective because they look like strawberry short cake. So I've been trying to come up with a Porterhouse with a loaded baked potato pattern for a while now.  It's bee a struggle.

[SilverCreek 0]

You guys do realize that trout have VERY poor vision compared to human vision.

We see 14 times better than a trout because we have 14 times the density of rods and cones in our retina. By comparison, an eagle or hawk has 12 times the visual acuity of a human. So our vision is relatively better than a trout than an eagle's vision compared to us.

Now comes a series of photos showing what the trout sees at increasingly closer distances. The trout sees best at three inches and not any closer.

Here is a trout's view at one foot.

 

At 6 inches

 

At three inches. This is as good as it gets for a trout.

 

Now here is what a real insect looks like to a trout. Compare it to the fly.

Mayfly at 6 inches

 

Mayfly at 3 inches

 

The key question is does that fly look like the mayfly? 

 

Thank goodness for the poor vision or we would rarely fool it. I think this is why sparkle of flash on a fly attracts or directs the attention of the fish. Although the flash or reflection of a floating leader can attract attention, the flash from an 8X is less than from a 5X. It is all relative to the underlying ability of the trout to see clearly.

https://content.osgnetworks.tv/flyfisherman/content/photos/HowTroutSee_spreads.pdf

The poor vision of the trout explains why the size and shape of a fly are so important. With poor vision size is detectable and as the fly becomes closer, shape is detected. Micro drag cannot be detected until the fish gets very close.

http://www.sexyloops.com/articles/whatsalmonidssee.shtml

"General vision

It seems that compared to ourselves, trout and salmon have pretty poor vision - in fact compared to the fish, our vision is about 14 times better at resolving images.  This is more than a little reassuring to me- it's good to know that even my ageing vision must still be at least 12 times better than theirs!

From what I have gathered it appears that a trout's eye can detect relative size, overall shape and general colour pattern, but even at its sharpest focus, which is about 2-3 inches from the fish's mouth, viewed objects will appear as a blur."

 

 

[DFoster 0]

23 hours ago, SilverCreek said:

You guys do realize that trout have VERY poor vision compared to human vision.

 

 

 

 

Thanks for posting Silver-  There are some interesting points here on how they see color.

https://www.troutprostore.com/class/color_vision_trout_eyes

[SalarMan 0]

These discussions...fussing over each aspect of each fly...trying to deceive a fish with a maximum brain size as that of a pea...etc, etc, is all part of the fun.

After 59 years with a fly rod in hand I still don't take it all that serious.

[SBPatt 0]

On 9/29/2022 at 1:13 AM, Modad2010 said:

 " Are you imitating an insect or a scrub brush? " 

I go with the scrub brush. For the water I fish, hackle, even a gold grade Whiting, isn’t going to float the fly well or for very long so I add generous amounts of foam and/or ungulate hair to keep it on top; I squeeze as many turns of hackle on the hook as I can, but it’s for appearance sake (plus, I think they look cool). I love Collins’ hackle for the colors and the saddles that come with the cape; the saddles I have (mostly #3) aren’t great dry fly quality but, like I said, I use other options for buoyancy, and, in addition, they work very well for a lot of the Irish lough-style flies I like to tie.

Regards,
Scott

[Bunjinn 0]

On 9/29/2022 at 7:54 AM, flytire said:

too bad he went out of business

Is this true? Just spoke with him a few months ago.

[flytire 0]

Yes it’s true

Charlie Collins hackle - The Classic Fly Rod Forum

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