Pushing, vibrating,popping and movng water with flies.....

[Jackpott 0]

Hi gents

 

I am tying flies for catfish, which here in South Africa, can be verocious predators and get ridiculously large. Generally the rule of thumb is that you need to tie big, dark flies that push a lot of water as the catfish has very poor eyesight (exacerbated by the very dark muddy water they inhabit) and rely on their lateral line and whiskers to detect their prey.

 

The flies we generally use have stiff hackles or bulky muddler like deerhair heads and rattles of sorts to attract the fish or illicit a strike when your fly passes by the fishes head, on or near the bottom of the water.

 

If you guys had to come up with patterns that move water big time or vibrate, snap, crackle and pop could you recommend techniques etc that i could incorporate to get my fly to make more noise under the surface to attract the cats? I have just tied up some of those "clicker" flies with the lose beads and im certain they will be great, have also tied patterns that have lose beads on the weedguards to rattle etc.

 

Have also not come across propellors in SA, could you perhaps post a link of where i could purchase these, or get pictures of them so that i can get my local fly shop to order.

 

Many thanks

 

 

[mdraft1 0]

Rattle & Hum

[Kirk Dietrich 0]

I like the rattle chambers in mylar. I'm not really convinced the beads on weedguards and loose on a shank actually click underwater. I know they click in our atmosphere but I've got to wonder if the water doesn't slow down the sliding. The fly would have to have a pronounced jigging action in order to move the beads back and forth. Remember above water, the fly tier is shaking the thing back and forth with his hand but underwater, on the retrieve, it is just moving in one direction - in toward you. Unless the fly drops or rises on the pause between strips, the beads will be pinned back. The bbs are going to move faster through air which is why rattle chambers click, I think water slows the movement of the beads and all but nullifies the click. I have not tested this underwater and I'm certainly not a fish with a lateral line so even if I was underwater in my pool, I don't know if what I hear/feel is what the fish is hearing/feeling.

The loudest rattle I have found is a cork, hard foam or balsa head with a hole drilled through it and a bb put in the hole and block it off on each end with a piece of hard plastic or something. Man, talk about loud. You fish it on top of on a sinking line to pull it down to the bottom.

 

Kirk

[Robert M 0]

I recommend this type of rattle

 

.

Tie and epoxy/glue the rattle to a piece of 12 - 20 lb doubled piece of mono(or single piece of heavier mono), tie the mono to the shank so the rattle trails behind the bend and can move a bit then tie the fly. This works real well with the different in the round tied patterns out there. Pop fleyes, sempre fleyes, mushmouth, Murdich Minnow, Wool heads, Deerhair, craft fur etc.

something like this using the above rattles. The end of the rattle can be heated and flattened if you want to add the rattle the same as the picture here. If you use wire and a loop the rattle will move side to side as long as the fly material doesn't get in the way of it.

 

Here is another fly that makes alot of noise if you put a rattle inside it

tying tutorial minus the rattle

http://www.taneycomotrout.com/davywottonshad.html

 

You may also want to try some of the fly lips and such for more water pushing capabilities I have heard good things about them although I have not tried them out yet.

 

HTH

[perchjerker 0]

I have to agree with Kirk's excellent comments on beads. You have to 'jig' flies with built-in rattles to get them to rattle. By jig, I mean to give a short retrieve, let the fly sink briefly, and then strip again. This causes the fly to undulate up and down in the water column, which, in turn, causes the beads in the rattle to be forced from one end of the rattle to the other; thus rattling.

 

Several different types of rattles are marketed in this country to satisfy the demands of the 'plastic worm' chunkers, who like to insert rattles into the worms they fish. Some are made of glass, some of aluminum, and others of plastic. All have anywhere fro two to four tiny lead spheres in them that produce the sound. Each type has its advocates, so I don't know which is best (has the loudest rattle!).

 

I tie a 'minnow' pattern for largemouth bass fishing, and which is also a great saltwater pattern, known as the Rattle Rouser. For this pattern, I typically use the glass-encased worm rattles. The rattle is placed inside of a section of Mylar tubing, which is the tied to the top of the hook, with enough extending past the bend of the hook to be unraveled to create the tail. The hook is then inverted in the vise, and a few strands of such things as Krystal flash, or Flashabou, and bucktail, sometimes more than one color in a layered fashion, are put on the create the back of the pattern. The fly rides upside down with the point up, making it somewhat weedless. It is rather slim and therefore would not 'push' water as you desire.

 

There is a deer hair pattern that requires the plastic encased rattle, as it has a blunt (90*) end which is pretty much mandatory for successful tying. The rattle is tied to the top of the hook at the bend, blunt end forward. Once the rattle has been tied on, deerhair is tied in, in bunches, around the hook and rattle up to the blunt end of the rattle to form the tail. Starting up against the blunt end of the rattle deer hair is then stacked/spun over the remainder of the hook. The hair is ultimately trimmed to form a large-headed minnow; which should push water as you desire.

 

Cheers,

perchjerker

[Steve P 0]

Don't forget that you can spin other materials such as wool, and I have lately had some rahter good success spinning muddler(ish) heads for bass with cong/EP fiber.... I like the water sheding that the congo fibers displays and it also siks easier, deeper, and better than wool while alos pushing water rather well.

 

Steve

[riffleriversteelheadslayer 0]

articulated patterns

[bad fish rising 0]

what about adding fish scents sprays to your flies then they can smell them also

[airbornemike 0]

what about adding fish scents sprays to your flies then they can smell them also

Do it all the time, cant wait to try some Yum F2 scent spray this season. I've been using Berkleys gulp crawdad, I think it really helpls with the larger carp I pick up as well.

[sniksoh 0]

propellers from jstockard

[Jackpott 0]

You guys are great! thanks to all! Im going to give all of these some serious thought, some brilliant ideas here.

 

Tried spinning with EP fibre before...was ugly...can anyone give me some suggestions?

[Jackpott 0]

what about adding fish scents sprays to your flies then they can smell them also

 

i find the scent comes off almost immediately in the water irrespective off how absorbant my flies material is.... can you recommed any good ones?

[Jackpott 0]

I like the rattle chambers in mylar. I'm not really convinced the beads on weedguards and loose on a shank actually click underwater. I know they click in our atmosphere but I've got to wonder if the water doesn't slow down the sliding. The fly would have to have a pronounced jigging action in order to move the beads back and forth. Remember above water, the fly tier is shaking the thing back and forth with his hand but underwater, on the retrieve, it is just moving in one direction - in toward you. Unless the fly drops or rises on the pause between strips, the beads will be pinned back. The bbs are going to move faster through air which is why rattle chambers click, I think water slows the movement of the beads and all but nullifies the click. I have not tested this underwater and I'm certainly not a fish with a lateral line so even if I was underwater in my pool, I don't know if what I hear/feel is what the fish is hearing/feeling.

The loudest rattle I have found is a cork, hard foam or balsa head with a hole drilled through it and a bb put in the hole and block it off on each end with a piece of hard plastic or something. Man, talk about loud. You fish it on top of on a sinking line to pull it down to the bottom.

 

Kirk

 

Hey man! The bead clicker patterns i tie have two lose beads on them, in between the finished varnished head of the fly and the hook eye. I put either a tungsten bead or a much larger bead closer to the hook eye and a smaller bead closer to the varnished head. Thanks to the tungsten or heavier bead the fly does dip and see-saw in the water, which im HOPING does make beads click when either the heavier bead pulls the fly down and hits the eye or smacks the smaller bead tpward the fly with a sharp retrieve.

[Kirk Dietrich 0]

Jackpott, sounds like you thought it out with the heavy bead up front to make it have a pronounced jigging action. I guess I mispoke in saying I doubt it would click, I just think the click can not be as pronounced as in a dry air enviornment. Although I could be wrong. Its just that I do know water slows down objects traveling through it.

I would like to see some pictures of these big catfish you are catching. That must be a blast.

 

Kirk

[Robert M 0]

Jackpott, sounds like you thought it out with the heavy bead up front to make it have a pronounced jigging action. I guess I mispoke in saying I doubt it would click, I just think the click can not be as pronounced as in a dry air enviornment. Although I could be wrong. Its just that I do know water slows down objects traveling through it.

I would like to see some pictures of these big catfish you are catching. That must be a blast.

 

Kirk

 

I wonder if the amount the beads are slowed down is offset with the increased way sound travels under water.

X2 on the pictures!