Am I tying so very differently?

[flytire 0]

Alan,

 

How about posting up some of those perfections you tie?

 

Do you have a website?

[jmmccutc 0]

your avatar looks like shit...just kidding...i'm not sure about the perfection of flys i just know that you only need to make them well enough to catch fish...if they were "perfect" why fish with them? shouldn't they be on like some sort of display then? there is a HUGE difference between tying shitty flies and flies that catch fish...i've been tying for about 6 years and i'm now just getting to the point where i'm confident in the fish catching ability of the little hair-balls...and yes i do agree with you that you need to have standards, but perfection when it comes to flies is a hard standard to uphold...I started tying with one of the beginer "kits" and the only thing that wasn't included that should have been was a set of really sharp razor blades...that is still my best friend...if the contraption on the vise looks really poor, slice it up and start over...if it looks so-so keep it and use it when the other "good" flies run out...i keep a bok of some of the very first flies that i tied, as a comparison, i can look at say and Adams that i tied six years ago and laugh at how aweful it is when i set i next to one i tied say yesterday...you know what really funny? that first Adams i tied way beck before i could shave was what i considered "perfect" at the time...lol...

 

peace, i'm out like an anorexic in a pie eating contest...

[Alan B 0]

How much more simple it would be if people read what is written. I have never tried to impose any standard on anyone else. Neither have I said that my flies are perfect. I don't have a full site but you can, if you wish, either take a look at my flies on Flytiers site or here http://uk.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/alanbithell/my_photos

My point is that to continue producing huge numbers of "scrap" flies is wasteful of time effort and materials. I have read of pro tiers having to tie up several flies to start a days work that they know will be thrown out scraped or burned off the hook. Why bother. Why not take a few seconds longer and not produce flies to throw away?

I am not advocating the tying of perfect flies, nor saying mine are perfect. What I am saying is that a considered deliberate approach is better than one so rushed that it produces up to 50% flies that the tier (not me) decides later to scrap.

 

Alan.

 

PS jmmccutc If the fly in the avatar is so bad how come I am the only pro tier ever be asked to supply them to the flies originator for him to sell them on?

[jmmccutc 0]

QUOTE

PS jmmccutc If the fly in the avatar is so bad how come I am the only pro tier ever be asked to supply them to the flies originator for him to sell them on?

 

QUOTE

your avatar looks like shit...just kidding...

 

guess you missed the second half of the statement...

the piont i was trying to make was that i can't see perfection being a realistice goal...maybe for you it is, and great that's your thing, but it's not mine...i mean honestly, i'll be the first to admit that my stuff isn't perfect...look heari was asking for advise on something that isn't good but i'm trying to makie it better...but i don't ever expect to reach "perfection" on any of my flies...

 

what really irked me more than anything was the attitude you used in the orignal post...i'm not denying that you are a 1,000 times better at flytying than i am, but geez, why do you have to be so pomus and pricish about it? "look, i'm 'perfect" give me a break...

 

peace, i'm out...

[Steeldrifter 0]

Lets all play nice and not start the new year off on a sour note fellas.

 

 

[Graham 0]

Alan,

 

I’m trying to figure out why you even asked your question;

 

“What puzzles me is that I keep seeing posts where people are making many flies that don't come up to standard. Sometimes up to half the flies they tie. Is my deliberate approach to fly tying unusual?”

 

 

 

It sounds like you already know the answer to your question. Perhaps we're all unusual. I think many fly tyers simply enjoy creating bugs with their own hands and get more satisfaction catching fish with these flies as opposed to store bought versions. For those of us who do not sell fly’s, which is the majority of us, the only “standard” imposed is our own satisfaction. Personally I like to experiment and have fun with my tying and many creations are nothing more than an eyesore and certainly don’t resemble anything that fish feed upon, but I don’t give up. I can tye some basic patterns and if I had to teach a beginner, which many of us are, I would try not to be a curmudgeon, allow fly’s to be finished improperly to allow for examination and understanding of what could be improved upon as well as seeing what steps were done nicely. I cant imaging hovering over an enthusiastic new tyer and insisting that proceeding further is not allowed until the previous step is up to “standard”. I can see where you are coming from, especially as one who tyed for a living, but, I’ve always hated strict rules, mean teachers and if something is not enjoyable, it sucks. I appreciate your advice, to basically master one step at a time before proceeding, makes sense, but I never frown upon imperfect fly’s, there are all little works of art and beauty is in the eye of the beholder and if cash is not involved no one should feel bothered.

 

Thats the best part about ths FlyTying Forum, were all different, share experiences, learn from each other, have fun and hopefully all get allong in a civilized manner. Happy New Year and I look forward to any tying tips you may want to share with us.

 

Graham

 

P.S. being unusual is a good thing.

[Peddler 0]

QUOTE (Alan B @ Dec 31 2004, 10:23 AM)

"Get one stage right before you go on to the next".

What a great piece of advise!

That is added to my New Years resolution list. Thanks!

[Guest]

I believe we all scrutinize our own flies and strive to bring each and every fly we tie up to our own standards weather we backtrack a few steps to obtain a better fly or just finish a fly that is not to up to one's own standards and later put the razor to it.

Regardless we still learn what looks right, or not to one's own standards and the wasted effort of the ill tied fly is really only important to a production tier as long as the hook is salvaged

(Unless of coarse the tier is tying with rare, expensive and hard to get materials as in classic salmon flies) In this case backing up a few steps makes good sense and is really the only way save Jungle cock nails and tropical bird feathers which don't come cheaply.

 

Back when I tied for fly shops, I was subject to other fly fisherman's Ideas of standards and most of the time the fly fisherman were not tiers there self, but they expected a perfectly tied fly with exacted apportions with even wings and totally symmetrical in every way, for the price of a cup of java.

Most of the time I could deliver this kind of quality to the display boxes, but after countless fishermen inspected and pawed thought the flies not many flies left retained there original shape or luster at seasons end.

From these flies I replenished my fly box from, and I had no problem the next season catching countless trout whose standards weren't as high as mine or the customers I tied for.

 

 

[fishyfranky 0]

I started tying this year and my first muddler was like a bad matter transporter accident. But I tried it anyways in the spring and got a 2+lb resident brown and a couple of nice steelhead in short order. I was onto something and a variant (still a crappy muddler) of it was my most successful fly for steelhead this fall.

 

I'd say try fishing with everything because you never know...

[Guest]

I started this site as a resource for tyers of all experience levels. In the 18 months this site has been around I have seen members really improve the quality of their flies(myself included). If someone new to tying would be upset with anything other than a fly up to "standards" they would become frustrated quickly. Learning to tie "quality" flies is a process, and doesn't come easily. I encourage members of all skill levels to post pics of their latest creations and I think the more experienced members really do a good job a steering people in the right direction.

[Guest]

The plain fact is, most people don't take the time to do things "right". There are given patterns that everybody accepts as models for their type. For example, the Wooly Bugger is a Marabou tail, some stuff for the body, and a palmered hackle. The thing is, they all look different because of different tyers.

 

When I tie a fly the first time I take a great deal of time and patience to get it to look like the best representative of that fly that I can find. After that, I experiment to see if I can alter it to perform better. Sometimes yes, sometimes no. However, the people who take the time to do it carefully each and every time I believe are in the minority.

 

In my opinion Alan that does place you in the "unusual" minority. Not bad or wrong by any means, just the smaller party. If I'm tying for someone else I will back up a step on a fly. If I'm tying for myself I remember that if it isn't a misstep that changes the character of the fly entirely the fish aren't likely to care if the presentation is correct and the fly is basically correct.

 

To produce a bunch of flies that are off pattern would indeed be a waste though, of time and material. By the way, I've been thinking that the nymph in your avatar rocks since the first time I saw it. I just haven't had time to try and make one yet!

[appalachian angler (tn.) 0]

HAPPY imperfect and non-standard New Year ya'll!

 

A.A.

[Guest]

WARNING! - THIS BETTER NOT GET NASTY OR THERE'LL BE HELL TO PAY - TRUST ME!